DG Rider
Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
Been working since my last(1st) ride on the Pioneer 500, so finally getting around to a few questions and some observations.
1. Where can I get a factory service manual in PDF form? I know where to get the paper version, but I'd prefer PDF this time around. What about an owners manual? (hint: I will not pay Honda $25 for something anyone else will let you download for free)
2. Shifting:
When i got it, the thing really shifted loudly and was stubborn coming out of 1st at times (esp cold). I adjusted the clutch while hot, which greatly improved everything, but I still got an odd delayed clutch engagement at times.
I adjusted the clutch again, this time cold, and with another shifting improvement, and i thought it had also gotten rid of the engagement until i rode it last week.
Here's what happens: It shifts (you can hear the gear engage quickly), then there is like a 1/2 second delay before the clutch grabs. It grabs firmly (no slipping), just seems like its delayed a bit, BUT...it seems like this is limited to higher gears (3rd and higher), and only after the machine has sat for a few minutes.
After several shifts, it seems to find the timing again and does it about as smoothly as you could expect. It's almost like it has to calibrate itself again. Could be oil circulation thing too.
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this. Understand that at worst, this is something most might never even notice...
It may also do this while climbing and downshifting under power (have to test some more) but this may be by design to ensure you don't stall on a hill because of a missed downshift, which could be disastrous.
This shifts themselves are really good after the cold clutch adjustment, only rarely refusing to come out of 1st under tough circumstances. I do need to work on my downshifting technique (esp while climbing).
3. Track width:
Someone has put what appears to be rear wheels with stock rear tires on the front so that all 4 are the same size. The front track looks noticeably wider than the rear, which i hate.
I have never really noticed this on stock machines, so...
a. Are stock machines wider in the front (and the narrower stock tires/wheels hide it better)?
b. I thought the stock wheels all had the same backspacing?
c. I'm assuming the front would be the 50" track.
d. What spacers would i need to make the back the same width (too lazy to measure
)?
4. Sway bar revisited (again):
Ride sucks at times. May remove this, but this is not the most stable machine to start with. I'm not interested in high speed handling, but i AM interested in side hill stability and ride. Remove or keep?
5. Door bushing have lots of slop. And are there two rubber snubbers on the latch loops as it appears there should be? Mine has only one on each side.
6. Is this thing way over cooled? NEVER heard the rad fan come on, but has never gone over 2 bars on the temp gauge and is full of coolant. Not been over maybe 50's while using it.
7. Sips gas. Actually ended ride with more gas than i started with. Ride + burritos!
8. The amount of gray sealant on my rear diff looks possibly excessive for a factory job. And there are a few spots where it was accidentally dabbed on the side of the case. No excessive noise or anything, but i would like to know if joe schmoe or the local dealer has been into my rear diff. Anyone else?
Okay...enough questions (maybe more later).
Observations from the 1st ride:
When i 1st got it home, i tried to cross a little stream near my house. It struggled a bit more than i thought (steep bank, so no cakewalk). I started wondering if this machine was going to be a disappointment compared to my old 700 as far as "terrainability" (as Yamaha calls it), which always seemed to have amazing ability when it had the power.
Then i started to think about what i had just done. It was a muddy mess, and its been a decade since I've dealt with east coast mud. And the stock tires suck. And i had never took the 700 across this either...mainly because the 2 trees i had to go between would have ripped the fenders off a 700. Perspective.
Likewise, those 1st few miles at Wildcat were on muddy, rutted trails worn out by big, powerful machines owned by people use usually have more balls and money than sense. The machine was narrow, stiff, and seemed sketchy on some of the hills.
Then something strange happened: I got out of playgrounds and rock bouncer challenges and into actual trails, and the worm turned. THIS is what this machine was meant for, and it does it pretty good. Love the short shifting and just cruising along the trails.
Stopped and dropped the air pressure to 4/5 F/R and lowered the shocks to the softest position, and improved the ride greatly. And just got used to the machine and being on the trail for the 1st time in a while, and it all came pretty good...or better, anyway. The steering, with the wider tires up front, is a bit heavier than i would like.
I haven't gotten my winch mount, so i was very skittish with mud holes, and the size did the same on steep hills..but as the day went on i became more brave. Went into some mud holes that were deeper than i thought, but had no issue clawing through them...and likewise, hit some rutted hills and clawed right up.
It appears that with the exception of something that twists it up and shows that lack of a locker, my fears of a lack of capability were unfounded. Even surprised me. I also accidentally backed up the edge of a bank and had the machine shift over.
I grabbed the oh-s*** handle in prep for a roll, but to my surprise, it teetered on to the downhill rear, loaded the suspension, and simply stopped. Perhaps the reputation of this machine has more effect on my perception than its actual performance? There is no denying this is a much narrower machine than what I'm used to...but it's much wider than any ATV I've ever owned. And is its center of gravity that much higher than an ATV? I think experience will show this much more capable than i have given it credit for.
I should also note that i only scraped the skids a few times, so it has better ground clearance than it seems, helped by those small dimensions...
And...never once did i think "i wish this had more power" in my admittedly casual riding style.
3rd/4th gears in casual trails? High altitude 700 owners would kill for this gearing!
So in the end...
On the type of terrain it was meant for, it was quite enjoyable, and with a little seat time i think it will be workable elsewhere as well. Do bigger machines work better in some places? Oh yeah, but everyone here probably knows that. But on those tiny little 2 tracks (or, 50" trails) like i grew up learning to ride on, the thing is a hoot.
Now if Honda would give it a bed and a locker...
1. Where can I get a factory service manual in PDF form? I know where to get the paper version, but I'd prefer PDF this time around. What about an owners manual? (hint: I will not pay Honda $25 for something anyone else will let you download for free)
2. Shifting:
When i got it, the thing really shifted loudly and was stubborn coming out of 1st at times (esp cold). I adjusted the clutch while hot, which greatly improved everything, but I still got an odd delayed clutch engagement at times.
I adjusted the clutch again, this time cold, and with another shifting improvement, and i thought it had also gotten rid of the engagement until i rode it last week.
Here's what happens: It shifts (you can hear the gear engage quickly), then there is like a 1/2 second delay before the clutch grabs. It grabs firmly (no slipping), just seems like its delayed a bit, BUT...it seems like this is limited to higher gears (3rd and higher), and only after the machine has sat for a few minutes.
After several shifts, it seems to find the timing again and does it about as smoothly as you could expect. It's almost like it has to calibrate itself again. Could be oil circulation thing too.
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this. Understand that at worst, this is something most might never even notice...
It may also do this while climbing and downshifting under power (have to test some more) but this may be by design to ensure you don't stall on a hill because of a missed downshift, which could be disastrous.
This shifts themselves are really good after the cold clutch adjustment, only rarely refusing to come out of 1st under tough circumstances. I do need to work on my downshifting technique (esp while climbing).
3. Track width:
Someone has put what appears to be rear wheels with stock rear tires on the front so that all 4 are the same size. The front track looks noticeably wider than the rear, which i hate.
I have never really noticed this on stock machines, so...
a. Are stock machines wider in the front (and the narrower stock tires/wheels hide it better)?
b. I thought the stock wheels all had the same backspacing?
c. I'm assuming the front would be the 50" track.
d. What spacers would i need to make the back the same width (too lazy to measure
)?4. Sway bar revisited (again):
Ride sucks at times. May remove this, but this is not the most stable machine to start with. I'm not interested in high speed handling, but i AM interested in side hill stability and ride. Remove or keep?
5. Door bushing have lots of slop. And are there two rubber snubbers on the latch loops as it appears there should be? Mine has only one on each side.
6. Is this thing way over cooled? NEVER heard the rad fan come on, but has never gone over 2 bars on the temp gauge and is full of coolant. Not been over maybe 50's while using it.
7. Sips gas. Actually ended ride with more gas than i started with. Ride + burritos!
8. The amount of gray sealant on my rear diff looks possibly excessive for a factory job. And there are a few spots where it was accidentally dabbed on the side of the case. No excessive noise or anything, but i would like to know if joe schmoe or the local dealer has been into my rear diff. Anyone else?
Okay...enough questions (maybe more later).
Observations from the 1st ride:
When i 1st got it home, i tried to cross a little stream near my house. It struggled a bit more than i thought (steep bank, so no cakewalk). I started wondering if this machine was going to be a disappointment compared to my old 700 as far as "terrainability" (as Yamaha calls it), which always seemed to have amazing ability when it had the power.
Then i started to think about what i had just done. It was a muddy mess, and its been a decade since I've dealt with east coast mud. And the stock tires suck. And i had never took the 700 across this either...mainly because the 2 trees i had to go between would have ripped the fenders off a 700. Perspective.
Likewise, those 1st few miles at Wildcat were on muddy, rutted trails worn out by big, powerful machines owned by people use usually have more balls and money than sense. The machine was narrow, stiff, and seemed sketchy on some of the hills.
Then something strange happened: I got out of playgrounds and rock bouncer challenges and into actual trails, and the worm turned. THIS is what this machine was meant for, and it does it pretty good. Love the short shifting and just cruising along the trails.
Stopped and dropped the air pressure to 4/5 F/R and lowered the shocks to the softest position, and improved the ride greatly. And just got used to the machine and being on the trail for the 1st time in a while, and it all came pretty good...or better, anyway. The steering, with the wider tires up front, is a bit heavier than i would like.
I haven't gotten my winch mount, so i was very skittish with mud holes, and the size did the same on steep hills..but as the day went on i became more brave. Went into some mud holes that were deeper than i thought, but had no issue clawing through them...and likewise, hit some rutted hills and clawed right up.
It appears that with the exception of something that twists it up and shows that lack of a locker, my fears of a lack of capability were unfounded. Even surprised me. I also accidentally backed up the edge of a bank and had the machine shift over.
I grabbed the oh-s*** handle in prep for a roll, but to my surprise, it teetered on to the downhill rear, loaded the suspension, and simply stopped. Perhaps the reputation of this machine has more effect on my perception than its actual performance? There is no denying this is a much narrower machine than what I'm used to...but it's much wider than any ATV I've ever owned. And is its center of gravity that much higher than an ATV? I think experience will show this much more capable than i have given it credit for.
I should also note that i only scraped the skids a few times, so it has better ground clearance than it seems, helped by those small dimensions...
And...never once did i think "i wish this had more power" in my admittedly casual riding style.
3rd/4th gears in casual trails? High altitude 700 owners would kill for this gearing!
So in the end...
On the type of terrain it was meant for, it was quite enjoyable, and with a little seat time i think it will be workable elsewhere as well. Do bigger machines work better in some places? Oh yeah, but everyone here probably knows that. But on those tiny little 2 tracks (or, 50" trails) like i grew up learning to ride on, the thing is a hoot.
Now if Honda would give it a bed and a locker...
Last edited:
