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P1000 2018 P1000-5 Deluxe Running on 1 cylinder - Solved - Bad PCM

JLR

JLR

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I recently brought my P1000-5 to the dealer to swap over my tires to tracks for the winter (its free with the service contract). My batteries were both about shot when I dropped it off so I asked them to swap out the starting battery and I ordered a new aux battery that I was going to replace after I picked it up. Things started to go south from there... First off they lost the hardware for the tracks, not related to my current issue but a PIA. Once they finally found the hardware several weeks later they brought it into the shop, put the tracks on and said when they started it up to bring it back outside it was 'smoking and running really rough'. They called, asked if it had ever done that - which it has not, its run like a champ for 2200 miles - and said they were going to do a little troubleshooting.

At this point they changed the fuel, spark plugs, and gave it a normal servicing, but ripped a spark plug boot and said that the plugs were the issue but now I was waiting on the boot. The boot arrived and I asked if the battery had been changed and it still had not - they then told me that a bad cell in the battery was causing the issue so I hooked onto the trailer to go get it while they changed the battery. When I arrived I took a look at the unit and they had changed the aux battery, not the starting battery, so I went in to discuss the issue and said I would just take it home and sort out the battery issue (after all it was running fine when I dropped it off so I suspected it was something simple...).

I swapped the battery around, installed a new aux battery, put them both on a trickle charge over night and as of this morning the problem they described still exists. To confirm what was actually going on I started by pulling the rear plug cable and trying to start - the machine with fire a couple times, sputter and die - never maintaining an idle. I reinstalled the rear plug cable and pulled the forward cable to repeat the process - this time the machine fired right up and idled on 1 cylinder no problem. The next step was to pull both plugs and have a look, the forward plug was wet and black, rear plug looked good so I swapped them and repeated the process. No change, the machine fired up with the 'black' plug in the rear cylinder while the good looking plug did the same in the forward. This tells me the plugs are fine. Next step was to confirm the ignition coil - I removed both coils, installed the forward (upper) coil where the rear coil mounts and tried it with the rear cylinder - the machine fired up and ran on the rear cylinder telling me that both coils are fine.

This is where I am running out of troubleshooting ideas - I will call the dealer back if need be but I really do not want to go down that road unless they have a plan as the cost can get out of control in a hurry (they covered most of the troubleshooting they did under my service contract...most but not all...). Does anyone have any suggestion of what to look at next? I may take the multimeter out now and see if the wires going to both ignition coils are getting the same voltage. I just don't see what could have happened to suddenly cause an issue like this - the only other details I know are that both batteries were indeed bad and froze while at the dealer, I could see where a cell on each was swollen, could they have caused an issue when they put a jumper pack on it? Also, I always keep the machine in my garage, it sat outside at the dealer for over a month - that said I have a full roof and hard cab - temps were very cold during that time frame, I believe it got down to -15 or 20.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, its the peak of ice fishing season and I cant get my shack out on the lake without it!! I will also mention that I have searched through the forum and found a number of similar issues but most seem to have been solved with plugs or coils. Should I be looking at the injector? The plug is black and wet so it seems to be getting fuel...
 
Hondasxs

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What year?
No codes flashing?
You didn't mention at all checking the fuel injectors??? You checked everything else.

I would pull the plug to the cylinder that is not running and see how wet it is. It should be fairly wet if the injector is working.
If it is dry, then there is your issue.

The injector issue is common and in some cases does not throw a code.
We have a repair kit if you find this to be the issue -
 
Neohio

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Did the front cylinder always maintain the one that was missing?
I am hesitant to suggest the injector plug, they typically will throw a code on the dash? They will also usually stall the engine.

Are you getting any dash codes?
 
JLR

JLR

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What year?
No codes flashing?
You didn't mention at all checking the fuel injectors??? You checked everything else.

I would pull the plug to the cylinder that is not running and see how wet it is. It should be fairly wet if the injector is working.
If it is dry, then there is your issue.

The injector issue is common and in some cases does not throw a code.
We have a repair kit if you find this to be the issue -
2018 - no codes at all, am I correct in understanding that injectors usually show a code?

I have wiggled the wires around on both injectors - I could try the 'pull test' but in this scenario I am trying to get that cylinder to start working rather than make it reproduce a problem. If there is a broken wire there I was hoping I would hear it kick in when wiggling and making contact. I think to access that plug a little easier maybe I need to remove the seat back?
 
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JLR

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Did the front cylinder always maintain the one that was missing?
I am hesitant to suggest the injector plug, they typically will throw a code on the dash? They will also usually stall the engine.

Are you getting any dash codes?
Correct - the issue stayed with the front cylinder through all the troubleshooting. It does fire to some extent but its weak and will not keep the engine running. Just sputters a few times and dies.
 
JLR

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So I tried a couple more things - with the engine OFF and the key ON I checked both wires on each coil and am showing 12v at all 4 locations. I have not yet checked and compared them with the engine running - maybe I should?

I also called the dealer back primarily to ask if they every checked compression and they said they did not. I gave them an update on everything and told them to talk to the techs/Honda and call me back as I am not excited to bring it back in unless they have a direction to go and a plan...
 
JLR

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Morning update - I ran through the full injector test procedure found in the below thread:

P1000 - PGM-FI DTC 12/13 (Fuel Injector)

Everything checked out as it should - no issues identified. For good measure I went ahead and swapped the injectors around and the issue did not follow, the machine is still running rough. If I pull the plug wire on the forward cylinder it keeps on running. If I pull the plug on the rear cylinder it runs for a few seconds and dies (one time it ran for maybe 10 seconds).

I am thinking that a compression check is in order however I do not have a test kit - anyone have a good recommendation that is easy to source?
 
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Neohio

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Snip~ If I pull the plug wire on the forward cylinder it keeps on running. If I pull the plug on the rear cylinder it runs for a few seconds and dies (one time it ran for maybe 10 seconds).
what happens when you disconnect front injector while it is running?
Pulling the spark plug with the machine not getting fuel won't make a difference. The break on the wire in the thread you linked was right behind the crimp. I good tug on the wire should finish breaking it.
 
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JLR

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what happens when you disconnect front injector while it is running?
Pulling the spark plug with the machine not getting fuel won't make a difference. The break on the wire in the thread you linked was right behind the crimp. I good tug on the wire should finish breaking it.
I tried disconnecting the front injector while the engine is running and it immediately revs up to 2000rpm and shuts off, displaying a code.

After your post I went back out and tried again, this time disconnecting the rear injector - when I do this the engine immediately shuts down and no code is displayed. I tried this several times. It seems the forward cylinder will not keep it going long enough to identify the code and shut it down - there is no increase in RPM, it just shuts down.

I did give both wires a good tug during the test but they did not seem to stretch at all and I saw no change in continuity. Am I correct in understanding that most people that experience the failed wire at the crimp receive the code?

Thank you for the feedback!
 
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Neohio

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I can only speak to my experience in the thread you linked.
My failure was hit or miss. It would die, start right back up and drive fine for a minute or so. Enough for me to get back to camp from where it initially started failing. I believe it was throwing a code.
I hate throwing money at a problem without a true diagnosis. I believe a pair of injector harnesses is ~$40 shipped to your door.
I would also put 2 new fresh spark plugs in. Once fouled, I don't think they are able to be cleaned.
 
JMynes

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Some of the auto parts stores have a loaner tool program. I’ve never used them so I don’t know how it works. Maybe you can rent or borrow a compression test kit from one of those businesses.
 
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JMynes

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@JLR I sent you a private message wanting to know which dealership you’ve been working with. Since we’re both in Maine it would be good to know who to avoid for service work.
 
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JLR

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I picked up a compression gauge/kit this afternoon and I am seeing just about 100psi on the rear cylinder and 90-95 on the forward. Anyone know the specification?
 
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bumperm

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Both plugs removed, throttle open, cranking engine on starter, 100 psi sounds way low. (I haven't checked the shop manual though.)
 
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