P1000 2018 SxS1000 Engine Overheasting Issue

[KERN]

Purchased new SXS1000M5D 2018 MANUFACTURED 11/17 and I am experiencing overheating issues (high coolant temperature, radiator fluid boiling "streaming" over, and fan turning off). Unit is driving from 4000' to 8700' in elevation, in snow, low gear range, 4AWD, typically in manual mode at between 5-6K RPM motor speed indicating 18-20 MPH. When in AUTO mode, transmission wants to shift up at 6.5 K. Gas pedal is depressed approximately 75% of range.

I have tried all posted remedies (burping the air out the system, making sure the radiator is clean, no debris or airflow obstructions, had dealer flash the ECM, etc.). Unit is current with all recalls and upgrades.

Honda is aware of the overheating problem and released suggestions in the The Wrench, August-October 2018 issue (see attached picture). scan Note: The reflash did not work and only lowered the point where the fan kicks on and the over temperature light comes on. The unit is still overheating,

Unfortunately, the local dealer has been unable to find anything wrong with the unit after three weeks of working with the Honda Honda's Dealer Representative.

I took the machine into Davis Radiator Shop 2500 E California Ave, Bakersfield, CA 93307, (661) 324-9886 for an evaluation and they suggested the following:
1. The radiator design is correct (super thin and high performance)
2. The cooling fan design is incorrect. At low speeds, the air flow is inadequate through the radiator, suggesting why the electric fan was installed behind the radiator to increase airflow, therefore improving the heat exchange characteristics. Under certain circumstances (idling or high speeds) the radiator will provide adequate cooling without the ECM controlled fan. However, under low speed, high torque, high horsepower demands, the radiator requires additional airflow for cooling. Unfortunately, Honda mounted the pull fan with a 3/4" to 1" gap with no air shroud to prevent recirculation or force the air to come through the radiator. Picture of gap IMG_2219

3. The hot engine compartment temperatures (known problem) contribute to the retaining/increasing the engine heat increasing the workload of the cooling system.

They recommended the following fixes:
1. Install an air shroud that will force the air intake for the fan to come directly through the radiator. This will provide maximum air flow and cooling. However, it could pose a problem during certain operations when the fan is not running. Perhaps, this is why Honda left the 3/4" to 1" gap, Need to conform with Honda's Engineers.
2. Figure out a way to vent out the high engine compartment temperatures. I seen several "Walmart Bilge Pumps" ideas that might work.

Any thoughts?

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

Not suppose to be happening with Honda.....

 

[JACKAL]

There is a known sporadic anomaly that keeps the fan from kicking on keeping temperatures in proper range. Honda even has a TSB on correcting it by reflashing ECM.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Purchased new SXS1000M5D 2018 MANUFACTURED 11/17 and I am experiencing overheating issues (high coolant temperature, radiator fluid boiling "streaming" over, and fan turning off). Unit is driving from 4000' to 8700' in elevation, in snow, low gear range, 4AWD, typically in manual mode at between 5-6K RPM motor speed indicating 18-20 MPH. When in AUTO mode, transmission wants to shift up at 6.5 K. Gas pedal is depressed approximately 75% of range.

I have tried all posted remedies (burping the air out the system, making sure the radiator is clean, no debris or airflow obstructions, had dealer flash the ECM, etc.). Unit is current with all recalls and upgrades.

Honda is aware of the overheating problem and released suggestions in the The Wrench, August-October 2018 issue (see attached picture). scan Note: The reflash did not work and only lowered the point where the fan kicks on and the over temperature light comes on. The unit is still overheating,

Unfortunately, the local dealer has been unable to find anything wrong with the unit after three weeks of working with the Honda Honda's Dealer Representative.

I took the machine into Davis Radiator Shop 2500 E California Ave, Bakersfield, CA 93307, (661) 324-9886 for an evaluation and they suggested the following:
1. The radiator design is correct (super thin and high performance)
2. The cooling fan design is incorrect. At low speeds, the air flow is inadequate through the radiator, suggesting why the electric fan was installed behind the radiator to increase airflow, therefore improving the heat exchange characteristics. Under certain circumstances (idling or high speeds) the radiator will provide adequate cooling without the ECM controlled fan. However, under low speed, high torque, high horsepower demands, the radiator requires additional airflow for cooling. Unfortunately, Honda mounted the pull fan with a 3/4" to 1" gap with no air shroud to prevent recirculation or force the air to come through the radiator. Picture of gap IMG_2219

3. The hot engine compartment temperatures (known problem) contribute to the retaining/increasing the engine heat increasing the workload of the cooling system.

They recommended the following fixes:
1. Install an air shroud that will force the air intake for the fan to come directly through the radiator. This will provide maximum air flow and cooling. However, it could pose a problem during certain operations when the fan is not running. Perhaps, this is why Honda left the 3/4" to 1" gap, Need to conform with Honda's Engineers.
2. Figure out a way to vent out the high engine compartment temperatures. I seen several "Walmart Bilge Pumps" ideas that might work.

Any thoughts?

You can pull the thermostat and make sure its opening correctly. You can test it on your stove with a pot of water. When bleeding the air out of the system, try to park on a bank or hoist the front end up high when filling and burping. I think the only reason for leaving the sides of the fan shroud open is to help clean dirt out of the radiator. If mud isnt a concern, I would use plastic, aluminum or foam to block the sides off. Sealing the shroud should make a big difference. Some people have also installed an override switch to control the fan auto or manually. Make sure you can see light directly through the radiator. Pressure washers can bend the internal fins and block airflow. A bad radiator cap will also bleed off pressure and lower the boiling point of the water. Make sure the fan is operating correctly first.

 

[Bastardchild]

Dealing with this myself now. Hopefully I will fix it this weekend

 

[Montecresto]

Dealing with this myself now. Hopefully I will fix it this weekend

Good luck with that! Hope you get it.

 

[Bastardchild]

Good luck with that! Hope you get it.

Thank you Sir!

 

[OnTheJob]

Bizzare. My machine has never been above 2 bars on the temp indicator on the dash no matter how I run it, in any conditions.

 

[301]

Bizzare. My machine has never been above 2 bars on the temp indicator on the dash no matter how I run it, in any conditions.

Mine has never had an issue either, even on a 90°day pulling a 7x12 trailer loaded with tree limbs.

Question for those of you with issues. Have you tried any of the cooling additives i.e. Engine Ice or Water Wetter along with a higher pressure radiator cap?

 

[Bastardchild]

Im gonna drain the block, hoses, pump, and anything that has water in it this weekend and put Evans Waterless coolant in it and vacuum down the cooling system and suck the new fluid in. Installing a 2nd fan in front of radiator wired to a switch that she can turn on at will. I didnt know you can get radiator caps that purge at different p.s.i.'s. Interesting. I also think I need the computer flash that lets the stock cooling fan go to the 'hi' speed.

 

[ofrcboy]

Burp the coolant, might be an air bubble in the system. I had the overheating problem and this solved it. Remove seat and you can see the burp screw shown in picture it is blue.

 

[HondaTech]

Have you checked the oil level?

I've seen 1 way over full that overheated at a high engine load (constant throttle while climbing a hill).

 

[Plongson]

We've overheated one time. On the Piute Trail here in Utah, climbed a long, huge, steep trail to nearly the top of a mountain....>10k feet. Loaded pretty heavy with two adults and 120 lbs of grandkids. Still NO EXCUSE for the P1K5 to overheat...none.

 

[Bigred48]

Honda has a new flash program of the ECM to prevent sporadic fan not kicking in when up to temp. Just call your local Honda dealer and they will do the flash for free. It takes around 15-20 min. Mine has not overheated since flash.

 

[KERN]

Honda has a new flash program of the ECM to prevent sporadic fan not kicking in when up to temp. Just call your local Honda dealer and they will do the flash for free. It takes around 15-20 min. Mine has not overheated since flash.

I had the Honda Dealer (actually it was the Honda Regional Dealer Representative as the local dealer did not have the computer) to do the flash and it did not fix the problem. In fact, all that update does is change the tripping point for the fan and LED over temperature indicator on the dash.

Honda is well aware of the problem and mentioned it in the Honda Wrench Technician Newsletter in August of 2018 (see attached) . I am unaware of any permanent fix as of 4/24/2019.

The machine has been in the shop four times (shop time over 1 month). The Honda Dealer and the Regional Representative have tossed in the towel and given up. The Dealer said to take it a Radiator Shop and have it looked at.

I took it to Davis Radiator Shop 2500 E California Ave, Bakersfield · (661) 324-9886. They found the following:

Honda has a fundamental design flaw with the cooling fan installation. There is a 1" to 1.5" gap with no fan shroud and does not adequately pull air through the radiator. In fact, if you place your hand in front of the radiator (only attempt this when the machine is cool, just started, and jump the fan with power) you cannot feel the air being pulled.

I am not an Automotive Engineer, but cooling fans are designed to draw air through the radiator to aid in the heat transfer process (transfers this heat to the outside air through the radiator, basic thermodynamics).

Typically, Honda relies on air flow for cooling and this can affect the efficiency of a radiator. I have ran the machine full out in Mojave and Hungry Valley when the outside temperature is over 105 degrees and never overheated. However, if I run it at 15 MPH with Snow Tracks it will overheat every time (no air flow). And this condition cannot be duplicated in the shop and therefore the Honda Dealer cannot fix it. PLUS- there is nothing to fix; the radiator design works fine when it not under extreme workload.

The shop said Honda used a very high performance “thin’ radiator. They recommend installing a fan shroud and a bigger/more efficient fan on a switch. They also recommended installing a “real” temperature gauge and a "loud" over temp buzzer. Might have to install 2 fans (pusher and a puller), but they must be synced together.

I know Honda reads and monitors these threads. Have you consider a simple shroud?

Thanks

 

[TripleB]

I had the Honda Dealer (actually it was the Honda Regional Dealer Representative as the local dealer did not have the computer) to do the flash and it did not fix the problem. In fact, all that update does is change the tripping point for the fan and LED over temperature indicator on the dash.

Honda is well aware of the problem and mentioned it in the Honda Wrench Technician Newsletter in August of 2018 (see attached) . I am unaware of any permanent fix as of 4/24/2019.
View attachment 125043

The machine has been in the shop four times (shop time over 1 month). The Honda Dealer and the Regional Representative have tossed in the towel and given up. The Dealer said to take it a Radiator Shop and have it looked at.

I took it to Davis Radiator Shop 2500 E California Ave, Bakersfield · (661) 324-9886. They found the following: View attachment 125041

Honda has a fundamental design flaw with the cooling fan installation. There is a 1" to 1.5" gap with no fan shroud and does not adequately pull air through the radiator. In fact, if you place your hand in front of the radiator (only attempt this when the machine is cool, just started, and jump the fan with power) you cannot feel the air being pulled.

I am not an Automotive Engineer, but cooling fans are designed to draw air through the radiator to aid in the heat transfer process (transfers this heat to the outside air through the radiator, basic thermodynamics).

Typically, Honda relies on air flow for cooling and this can affect the efficiency of a radiator. I have ran the machine full out in Mojave and Hungry Valley when the outside temperature is over 105 degrees and never overheated. However, if I run it at 15 MPH with Snow Tracks it will overheat every time (no air flow, and the fan will not pull through the radiator).

View attachment 125042

The shop said Honda used a very high performance “thin’ radiator. They recommend installing a fan shroud and a bigger/more efficient fan on a switch. They also recommended installing a “real” temperature gauge and loud over temp buzzer. Might have to install 2 fans (pusher and a puller), but they must be synced together.

I know Honda reads and monitors these threads. Have you consider a simple shroud?

Thanks

What you're saying may be true but it doesn't explain why the fan will not kick on. The only time I overheated was because the fan wasn't running. I have not had the update done yet.

 

[Bigred48]

good to know. I will update if my fan does not kick in again in the future after this recent flash i had done around a month ago.

 

[KERN]

What you're saying may be true but it doesn't explain why the fan will not kick on. The only time I overheated was because the fan wasn't running. I have not had the update done yet.

Couple of thoughts:
1. If you do the update, the ECM will kick the fan on at a lower temperature.
2. Before I did the update, I was left stranded when the fan kicked out during the ride (you cannot hear the fan running when the motor is running at high RPMs). Honda knows about this problem (see tech notes). I am unsure if the ECM flash has fixed this problem.
3. Check the fan to see if it working.

Good luck

 

[tbaker]

Could you not just put a bigger radiator on the pioneer that produces more flow

 

[KERN]

Could you not just put a bigger radiator on the pioneer that produces more flow

According to the guy at Davis Radiator Shop, 2500 E California Ave, Bakersfield, CA 93307, (661) 324-9886, the solution is not that simple. The underlying issue is heat transfer (engine block heat transfers to the coolant, the coolant transfers to the air). More radiator volume is not as important as more radiator surface area. In addition, the cooling system is limited by small radiator hoses and the small diameter of the thermostat. They recommend building a larger radiator (same depth, just more surface area), install custom-tight-fitting fan shroud, replacing the thermostat, and installing a larger more efficient fan. Translation: It will cost $500 to fix Honda's design issue.