P700m2 700 purchase mentoring needed please!

[SmokinJoe]

Gentlemen:

My wife and I want to purchase a side by side Pioneer for recreational trail riding and camping (we live close to a lot of high desert territory desirable for exploring and camping). We've pretty much decided it has to be a Honda. Initially, I had narrowed down my choices to either the 1000-3 (deluxe) or the 500. The problem with the 1000 is that it is more money than we want to spend. Conversely, my concern with the 500 is that it is not enough machine for two adults and 2-3 days of camping gear and supplies.

I've since decided to take a closer look at the 700. I was initially put off with the 700 because I read some reports that first gear is not low enough such that, with the automatically clutched tranny, you can get in situations where the engine will not spin the wheels. (if you've ever ridden a Trail 90, you know what I am talking about). For example, there is a video on YouTube where a rider is trying to scale a fairly steep rock face (not too steep to climb though) and the wheels simply will not turn because the gearing is not low enough to provide torque to turn the wheels with the automatic clutch.

So here is my question (actually two of them): How big of a problem is this alleged lack of sufficiently low gearing in the 700? I've seen videos on YouTube where guys are plowing snow with the 700 and successfully driving through deep mud, suggesting the auto clutch and tranny give plenty of low end torque, but then again there are also videos (and rider reports) that the lack of a low enough gear is a real limitation of the machine.

The second question is, how much of a difference in machine performance does the paddle shifter and choice between auto/manual mode make? My wife and I are both near 60 and we are not going to be mudding or pushing the machine speed wise, but I can see us hauling several hundred pounds of gear, maybe pulling a small trailer and driving up some steep grades.

Any thoughts from 700 owners is appreciated.

Thanks,

SmokinJoe

 

[Ems-Cam]

Joe, First off welcome from Alberta Canada. I can speak to the first question. I own the 700-4 and it was my choice of machine over a 1000 not only for price, but for that automatic transmission. Its an automotive style transmission with torque converter and as a mechanic first (14 years with General Motors before turning EMS), I wanted the reliability of a honda and didn't like the idea of the belt drive system for long term reliability.
Myself I have had ONE major situation where I wanted more power, and that was during a climb at the Big Horn Dam in Nordegg Alberta, Canada. It was a climb that was steep enough that the front started getting Very light and honestly about the steepest climb I will ever do. Near the top it was struggling, but then again I had myself, my wife and my 2 kids, both over 110# each. Plus a bit of gear. I was able to go everywhere the John Deere Gator, Rzr 500 and Rzr 800-4 in my group went. As for getting the power to spin when needed, I have not actually encountered that yet.
I will need to let others answer the paddle shifting part as mine is the 2015 model and does not have that feature, although I would love to add it.

 

[tjoreo]

I guess I will be the "second" to welcome you here and just say you have made the best choice in deciding on purchasing a honda. There is quite abit of info on the questions you ask and just something you will have to decide. I personally have a 700-4 and have really enjoyed it. I use it mainly for what you are talking about with alot of trail, camping use and using it to plow snow in the winter. I haven't noticed anytimes when I ran out of power going up a hill, but I wish it had a better engine breaking going down hill. Dmaxx was one of the last members to try and make this decision so here are a couple of links to his info. Good luck.

P700 - Need help between 700 & 1000
P1000 - Help between 700 & 1000

 

[SmokinJoe]

Joe, First off welcome from Alberta Canada. I can speak to the first question. I own the 700-4 and it was my choice of machine over a 1000 not only for price, but for that automatic transmission. Its an automotive style transmission with torque converter and as a mechanic first (14 years with General Motors before turning EMS), I wanted the reliability of a honda and didn't like the idea of the belt drive system for long term reliability.
Myself I have had ONE major situation where I wanted more power, and that was during a climb at the Big Horn Dam in Nordegg Alberta, Canada. It was a climb that was steep enough that the front started getting Very light and honestly about the steepest climb I will ever do. Near the top it was struggling, but then again I had myself, my wife and my 2 kids, both over 110# each. Plus a bit of gear. I was able to go everywhere the John Deere Gator, Rzr 500 and Rzr 800-4 in my group went. As for getting the power to spin when needed, I have not actually encountered that yet.
I will need to let others answer the paddle shifting part as mine is the 2015 model and does not have that feature, although I would love to add it.

Thank you sir for that useful information. From what you are saying, it sounds like the lack of a lower gear could be a problem, but if so, it would be very rare.

 

[SmokinJoe]

I guess I will be the "second" to welcome you here and just say you have made the best choice in deciding on purchasing a honda. There is quite abit of info on the questions you ask and just something you will have to decide. I personally have a 700-4 and have really enjoyed it. I use it mainly for what you are talking about with alot of trail, camping use and using it to plow snow in the winter. I haven't noticed anytimes when I ran out of power going up a hill, but I wish it had a better engine breaking going down hill. Dmaxx was one of the last members to try and make this decision so here are a couple of links to his info. Good luck.

P700 - Need help between 700 & 1000
P1000 - Help between 700 & 1000

Thank you sir!

 

[swsebek]

Welcome Joe believe them guys. I have a p4 and it gets used a lot. The only time you will ever doubt it is when someone posts some doubt. It is a great reliable machine and the price is right.Also it is bullet proof IMO
Good luck with your purchase and any questions just ask we will help you

 

[Ems-Cam]

Thank you sir for that useful information. From what you are saying, it sounds like the lack of a lower gear could be a problem, but if so, it would be very rare.

Sure if low was a but more of a reduction it would help. Myself I have towed a small trailer around my acreage with no issues at all. For power, I have put on a snorkel, K&N air filter and changing the exhaust tip, and then I am getting a chip to give it that little bit more. One other member with a 700 did the same and said it was all it needed, just that little bit extra.

 

[Ems-Cam]

Welcome Joe believe them guys. I have a p4 and it gets used a lot. The only time you will ever doubt it is when someone posts some doubt. It is a great reliable machine and the price is right.Also it is bullet proof IMO
Good luck with your purchase and any questions just ask we will help you

Far too true. If we wanted to the biggest, fastest or sling the most mud, then the 700 is not the machine for you. If you want it reliable and still able to go everywhere the rest do, and save some $$ then the 700 is the choice. Maybe I should say this, if I was to be able to go back to when I bought mine, the only thing I would change is the colour!! I would still have got a 700.

 

[tjoreo]

If I remember right alot of people that were having trouble with it stalling was the early '14 models or someone that was making the very videos you are talking about to prove a point. They were stopping in a middle of a long hill or starting from a dead stop. Most people don't drive there's this way, so most shouldn't have a problem. I can say I had 3 adults weighing 240, 300+ and about 260 in the front, with a full cow elk in the back, with all of our gear and we climbed a "VERY" steep hill with about 6-8 inches of snow on it. My only complaint is 3 adults in the front is VERY tight to say the least. The rig never had a problem and made it up easily. It wasn't a ball of fire, but I never worried about it making it.

 

[Ems-Cam]

If I remember right alot of people that were having trouble with it stalling was the early '14 models or someone that was making the very videos you are talking about to prove a point. They were stopping in a middle of a long hill or starting from a dead stop. Most people don't drive there's this way, so most shouldn't have a problem. I can say I had 3 adults weighing 240, 300+ and about 260 in the front, with a full cow elk in the back, with all of our gear and we climbed a "VERY" steep hill with about 6-8 inches of snow on it. My only complaint is 3 adults in the front is VERY tight to say the least. The rig never had a problem and made it up easily. It wasn't a ball of fire, but I never worried about it making it.

I recall one gentleman on youtube trying to prove this exact point, he went to the steepest point he could find and said at the start that he didn't expect it to make it. Then it made it. He then backed down to the middle, came to a dead stop and started again, only to make it. I had not noticed if it was only the 2014 model, but thats a good point. in 2015 they added the oxygen sensor and whatever changes that brought in power.

 

[SmokinJoe]

I recall one gentleman on yo
utube trying to prove this exact point, he went to the steepest point he could find and said at the start that he didn't expect it to make it. Then it made it. He then backed down to the middle, came to a dead stop and started again, only to make it. I had not noticed if it was only the 2014 model, but thats a good point. in 2015 they added the oxygen sensor and whatever changes that brought in power.

Thanks everyone for the excellent information and the links you have provided. They were very helpful. If I may ask one more question: how essential or desirable is power steering in the 700? There's a big price difference between the deluxe and the standard model. Paddle shift would also be nice, but I'm mainly curious just how essential power steering is for full enjoyment of the machine.

TIA,

SmokinJoe

 

[Ems-Cam]

Thanks everyone for the excellent information and the links you have provided. They were very helpful. If I may ask one more question: how essential or desirable is power steering in the 700? There's a big price difference between the deluxe and the standard model. Paddle shift would also be nice, but I'm mainly curious just how essential power steering is for full enjoyment of the machine.

TIA,

SmokinJoe

My 0.02$, I have not yet found myself wanting it. I have no troubles getting it to move where I need, even in the mud. I can imagine you are doing your research because you want to keep the machine for a long time to come, so if I may say it simply, while 60(ish) is not old, your not getting any younger. Of course I have absolutely no clue of your abilities so I simply suggest you consider that aspect.

 

[Theron]

If there is a hill mine won't turn the tires going up, I don't want to go up that hill. Mine has gone up anything that I want to climb with a full load in it. I have a 2014 and have only had it stall rarely when starting from a dead stop with a lot of resistance, not ideal but it doesn't stall when I'm full throttle climbing a hill. The 700 is the best bang for the buck IMO. Consider the P4 if your doing a lot of camping with a bunch of gear as the side nets on the back make it easy to pack tons of gear and secure it very easily.

 

[swsebek]

you can always add power steering later.I wished I had it that way I wouldn't have to put my beer down on tight sections

 

[tjoreo]

I just put the Ez Power Steering Kit on about Christmas time and really enjoy it. I can now run my 700 in full differential lock all the time while plowing and it sure makes it so much nicer. I did a little desert riding after I put it on and was pleasantly surprised. There was about 10 inches of sugary snow on the ground and once again had to use differential lock to get around. I live in a small town so we use our rig a lot to get around and it makes it easier to turn on asphalt (or maybe it just easier with all the ice). Heck even my skeptic wife was amazed just turning the wheels in the shop with the key off and on. I don't know what the difference in the price of the deluxe one with ps or the standard one without is, but the Ez Steer costs about $525 when they run a sale and they are fairly easy to put on. The nice thing about the 700 is for the price it gives you a couple of $Thousand to play with to accessorize the way to want vs the cost of the 1000.

 

[allgm1]

I put power steering in mine, before I did though I thought I could live without it, now that we have it we wouldn't go without it. Its nice being able to steer with one hand while plowing

 

[Montecresto]

Gentlemen:

My wife and I want to purchase a side by side Pioneer for recreational trail riding and camping (we live close to a lot of high desert territory desirable for exploring and camping). We've pretty much decided it has to be a Honda. Initially, I had narrowed down my choices to either the 1000-3 (deluxe) or the 500. The problem with the 1000 is that it is more money than we want to spend. Conversely, my concern with the 500 is that it is not enough machine for two adults and 2-3 days of camping gear and supplies.

I've since decided to take a closer look at the 700. I was initially put off with the 700 because I read some reports that first gear is not low enough such that, with the automatically clutched tranny, you can get in situations where the engine will not spin the wheels. (if you've ever ridden a Trail 90, you know what I am talking about). For example, there is a video on YouTube where a rider is trying to scale a fairly steep rock face (not too steep to climb though) and the wheels simply will not turn because the gearing is not low enough to provide torque to turn the wheels with the automatic clutch.

So here is my question (actually two of them): How big of a problem is this alleged lack of sufficiently low gearing in the 700? I've seen videos on YouTube where guys are plowing snow with the 700 and successfully driving through deep mud, suggesting the auto clutch and tranny give plenty of low end torque, but then again there are also videos (and rider reports) that the lack of a low enough gear is a real limitation of the machine.

The second question is, how much of a difference in machine performance does the paddle shifter and choice between auto/manual mode make? My wife and I are both near 60 and we are not going to be mudding or pushing the machine speed wise, but I can see us hauling several hundred pounds of gear, maybe pulling a small trailer and driving up some steep grades.

Any thoughts from 700 owners is appreciated.

Thanks,

SmokinJoe

Welcome to the forum. No issues with the P7 running around the ranch working, but I really do hate that Honda didn't give us a H-L transmission for rough steep terrain. I'm not seeing you loaded with gear pulling a trailer up steep grades necessarily.

 

[Deerhunterrob]

Welcome Joe! First I would get the power steering I'LL be adding it to mine to get rid of the bump steer. It's not to bad without it but I've had times it jerked the wheel out of my hand when I bumped a rut or something. Power issues on the other hand I've not had any an been very happy with mine after a few up grades but that's because I got heavy mud tires. I've climbed hills that's some of my buddy's wouldn't try with no issues. It will get u where u want to go an dependable as u can get. It a great machine an I picked it over the 1000 for several reasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Montecresto]

Gentlemen:

My wife and I want to purchase a side by side Pioneer for recreational trail riding and camping (we live close to a lot of high desert territory desirable for exploring and camping). We've pretty much decided it has to be a Honda. Initially, I had narrowed down my choices to either the 1000-3 (deluxe) or the 500. The problem with the 1000 is that it is more money than we want to spend. Conversely, my concern with the 500 is that it is not enough machine for two adults and 2-3 days of camping gear and supplies.

I've since decided to take a closer look at the 700. I was initially put off with the 700 because I read some reports that first gear is not low enough such that, with the automatically clutched tranny, you can get in situations where the engine will not spin the wheels. (if you've ever ridden a Trail 90, you know what I am talking about). For example, there is a video on YouTube where a rider is trying to scale a fairly steep rock face (not too steep to climb though) and the wheels simply will not turn because the gearing is not low enough to provide torque to turn the wheels with the automatic clutch.

So here is my question (actually two of them): How big of a problem is this alleged lack of sufficiently low gearing in the 700? I've seen videos on YouTube where guys are plowing snow with the 700 and successfully driving through deep mud, suggesting the auto clutch and tranny give plenty of low end torque, but then again there are also videos (and rider reports) that the lack of a low enough gear is a real limitation of the machine.

The second question is, how much of a difference in machine performance does the paddle shifter and choice between auto/manual mode make? My wife and I are both near 60 and we are not going to be mudding or pushing the machine speed wise, but I can see us hauling several hundred pounds of gear, maybe pulling a small trailer and driving up some steep grades.

Any thoughts from 700 owners is appreciated.

Thanks,

SmokinJoe

Drive the Pioneer 1000 before you make any decisions.

 

[BAMASXSRIDER]

I just purchased a 2017 p4 last week. I too was concerned about the You Tube videos with a the lack of power up hills, but after a lot of research I pulled the trigger anyway. I believe most of the issues were with the 2014 model that had no way to compensate for the thin air at higher altitudes. I only have 5 hours on mine, but have tested it on some pretty steep rutted trails with no problems at all. I went to buy the deluxe but ended up with the base after driving one at the dealership. The power steering was not need in my opinion and I would very rarely use the paddle shift. I was also able to get the dealer to give a bigger discount on the base as well. I have had some higher powered machines but hardly ever used the power they had due to fact I just don't enjoy putting my self and machine in such danger.