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CID
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fartsalot
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I have the Gauge Wix part number 24801 Paper work and instructions inside list the Mfg as
Engineered Products Company Waterloo Ia 800-689-7803.
If it works like I think it should, I would easily know when to clean my air filter because it shows restrictive as opposed to looking at it and thinking it is dirty and restrictive. When the OEM green filters look plugged they could actually be passing air just fine. I use a R2C filter on my talon.
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Engineered Products Company Waterloo Ia 800-689-7803.
If it works like I think it should, I would easily know when to clean my air filter because it shows restrictive as opposed to looking at it and thinking it is dirty and restrictive. When the OEM green filters look plugged they could actually be passing air just fine. I use a R2C filter on my talon.
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In my pointy head, it should work. Vacuum is vacuum, but you may want to continue to check throughout the first filter life, taking note of vacuum at various dirt loads of the filter. We don't know how much vacuum the filter will stand before it fails. Experience says the filter is cheap. Lost a 5.9 cummins to sand when it sucked the filter between services. Keep us updated.
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fartsalot
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I'm going to keep watch on how it performs with my talon. Hopefully it will allow a owner to get the most out of the air filter,,,especially with the OEM one,,,, and know when to clean or change the after market filter. My understanding is that when a filter gets dirty it goes thru a stage where it does a better job of cleaning the air until the restriction comes in to play effecting performance.
The weather is dryer and roads are much more dusty no better way to put it to the test. I will keep a close watch on the inside of the intake tubes, if any dirt is going thru it will show up on the inside of the tubes. The deal breaker is when the tubes show dirt and the filter minder shows the filter is still good,,,only time will tell. LOL
To be continued.....
The weather is dryer and roads are much more dusty no better way to put it to the test. I will keep a close watch on the inside of the intake tubes, if any dirt is going thru it will show up on the inside of the tubes. The deal breaker is when the tubes show dirt and the filter minder shows the filter is still good,,,only time will tell. LOL
To be continued.....
CID
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A couple of points -
1. I was complaining about a paper filter on a dirt machine, our Talons, someone brought to my attention that many BIG dirt movers have paper elements and they're considered very efficient. It's hard to argue against pleated paper filters when they're used to protect such expensive equipment.
2. Most of us aren't versed in how dirty a paper element can get before it becomes a problem. This also shows up in dirt bikes that use oiled foam as their filter medium, some guys clean them way too often - a little dirty build-up doesn't mean it's time to clean or replace (in our case).
3. Someone else said their fuel mileage went to crap when their filter got too dirty, this one may or may not be true - with FI, as the filter gets dirty, it 'should' lean out the mixture not richen up which is caused by the high vacuum caused by a dirty filter. I don't have a clue. 🤔
4. The Talon filter is positioned so that 'extra' dirt should drop off, kinda, sorta self cleaning the element … maybe.
5. My solution was to copy HondaBob's snorkel idea, except I didn't run mine up to the roof, it's right behind the passenger's head. I'm at 500 miles now and it's FILTHY,
glad I got that project done before my first ride. Note that I ride alone, not in someone else's dust, I make my own. Once a pritty bright red, it's now almost completely black but the pores are still open.
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906UP
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I'm interested to hear your results, I did the 3" uni-filter inside the box thing over the winter, this is what it looked like today with about 400 miles on it.
I swapped it out with a new one, I bought 2 so I could swap them out quickly and clean the dirty one later. Thinking the S&B or KWT pre filter thing is going to be the next step
I swapped it out with a new one, I bought 2 so I could swap them out quickly and clean the dirty one later. Thinking the S&B or KWT pre filter thing is going to be the next step
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CID
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Ewwww …
The reasons I copied HondaBob's snorkel -
1. I was convinced that Honda's location sucked. But now I think I see their thinking, they thought the intake would be from the side of the vehicle, through those two vents, a fairly clean location except for what the front tire kicks up. They didn't realize how much dust would get through the seams of the inner fender panel.
2. I wanted to keep the stock intake plenum, it's either for intake noise or tuning, both reasons to keep it.
3. I really don't like pleated paper filters in this environment, not at ~$40 a copy.
4. Adding the Uni as a prefilter gives me a great safety cushion.
The reasons I copied HondaBob's snorkel -
1. I was convinced that Honda's location sucked. But now I think I see their thinking, they thought the intake would be from the side of the vehicle, through those two vents, a fairly clean location except for what the front tire kicks up. They didn't realize how much dust would get through the seams of the inner fender panel.
2. I wanted to keep the stock intake plenum, it's either for intake noise or tuning, both reasons to keep it.
3. I really don't like pleated paper filters in this environment, not at ~$40 a copy.
4. Adding the Uni as a prefilter gives me a great safety cushion.
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CID
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I wonder how the particle separator compares to the external Uni? The separator had to be invented for a reason, maybe a higher dirt capacity.
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I cleaned my under roof UNI filter at 10,000 miles and it was filthy but it still hit the rev limiter at 78.5 mph. I have 4,800 miles on the Uni now and its still fairly clean. I was going to clean it at 15,000 miles but will go to at least 16,000. I'm going to replace it with the automotive air filter I got at O'Reillys Auto Parts. Its a PITA to clean but for $34.00 I will just replacement it every 5,000 to 10,000 miles. It comes oiled and ready for use.
The Talon only uses the narrow band O2 sensor fuel feedback idle and low cruise. The Talon does NOT have a Mass Air Flow Sensor so it has absolutely no idea how much air it is taking in so for everything else, it uses Alpha-N and Speed Density modes with tables and sensor inputs to control the injector pulse width, timing, etc. Basically it runs in open loop as soon as you stomp the pedal.
A clogged air filter will restrict flow and the ECU can't detect it because it is using temp, throttle position, engine RPM, etc to determine pulse width, not air flow or O2 info.
I can confirm that the S&B works as good as or better than advertised. This is my filter after ~1500 miles with the S&B and lots of dust and a couple of sand storms at the dunes, it looks brand new and the inside of my air box and inlet hose are pretty clean (just a tiny amount of heavier dust at the bottom). I truly believe my filter will last at least 10,000 miles. Divide that by 300 miles that I was getting out of the stock setup and I will save 33 air filters. That equates to $1300 and a lot of trouble saved. The S&B is WELL worth the money, it saves you money in the long run...
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@PaulF Do you have a photo of the S&B? I'm familiar with the separator that mounts behind the passenger's head and is unpowered (I don't remember the MFR). Does the S&B use a fan?
Yes, the S&B uses a fan and makes a little noise. I didn't use the Honda one (bought one that fits a CanAm) so I could mount mine on the roof so I didn't have to hear it. Also relayed it so it only comes on after the engine starts. Works perfect for me but I don't do a lot of trail riding with low branches. I am considering getting a full aluminum roof and moving it down back and under the roof line (it interferes with my Rugged Radio a little bit). I will most likely put in a rear window to keep the noise down from the S&B AND the engine. I put a full windshield in and the engine noise is now a lot louder in the cab.
As far as I can tell, the unpowered (KWT) one is more like a Donaldson separator (like used on earth moving equipment) and prolongs the filters maybe 5 times as long. Pretty spendy for what it does (~$400), you would be better off with a cheaper snorkel or pre-filter like HondaBob's.
Particle Separators: Honda
www.sbfilters.com
D
I have the S&B on my Talon and setup like PaulF's and I bought the one for a Polaris 1000S as they did not have one out yet for the Talon when I installed mine.
And I am glade now that I did it as it was $50 cheaper and they do not make one to fit the Talon should you have a full rear window.
But you can make some simple mods and use it.
I put a guard around mine as I do run in areas with low limbs ect.
I could not be happier with how well it works and I run the RC2 air filter also.
Also with it mounted up on top and a rear window I can not hear it.
And I am glade now that I did it as it was $50 cheaper and they do not make one to fit the Talon should you have a full rear window.
But you can make some simple mods and use it.
I put a guard around mine as I do run in areas with low limbs ect.
I could not be happier with how well it works and I run the RC2 air filter also.
Also with it mounted up on top and a rear window I can not hear it.
Great discussion and thanks to you guys for the background info on filters. I installed the S&B a month ago and am waiting to see how it works for me.
My thoughts are that a pre=filter installed Inside the airbox adds some potential issues.
How do you know that the pre-filter is dirty without opening up fairly often.? Doing so adds the risk of inadvertently leaving a leak in the gasket if not seated perfectly. Why does Honda OEM Filter come with both gasket "o-rings" with each new filter? Is it because of the potential for a less than perfect seal by re-using one that has only 30 to 500 miles on it ? I see it like replacing the crush washer on the drain plugs each time we do an oil change
Below is a photo of my filter with 750 miles of Utah Canyonlands riding before S&B added. I am usually by my self or the leader so I assume this is all self inflicted /generated dust. I will give the S&B 1000 miles and check the filter and inspect for dust on the "clean" side. We have all read the experience of others with engine damage due to only a small amount of dust getting through.
I see it as one of several design flaws on an otherwise great machine. As I am new to the SxS world, still preferring my Quads and Mountain Bike, I'm finding this is a very expensive sport. But I still love my Talon.
My thoughts are that a pre=filter installed Inside the airbox adds some potential issues.
How do you know that the pre-filter is dirty without opening up fairly often.? Doing so adds the risk of inadvertently leaving a leak in the gasket if not seated perfectly. Why does Honda OEM Filter come with both gasket "o-rings" with each new filter? Is it because of the potential for a less than perfect seal by re-using one that has only 30 to 500 miles on it ? I see it like replacing the crush washer on the drain plugs each time we do an oil change
Below is a photo of my filter with 750 miles of Utah Canyonlands riding before S&B added. I am usually by my self or the leader so I assume this is all self inflicted /generated dust. I will give the S&B 1000 miles and check the filter and inspect for dust on the "clean" side. We have all read the experience of others with engine damage due to only a small amount of dust getting through.
I see it as one of several design flaws on an otherwise great machine. As I am new to the SxS world, still preferring my Quads and Mountain Bike, I'm finding this is a very expensive sport. But I still love my Talon.
Paul, This is interesting. How do you get the "engine on" signal to trigger the relay ? I'd like to do that to mine, as i am using "key on" power now.
You will not be disappointed with the S&B. My air box and filter looked like yours on my first filter change too. The S&B all but eliminates that "mess". For me it has worked on everything from the most fine (almost talcum powder) dust to a sand storm and kept my filter like new for over 1500 miles and I am often in the back of the pack because I have a radio.
After my first filter was clogged at less then 300 miles, I went with an internal pre-filter. It worked great but I was also concerned about the constant opening of the air box and removal of the filter to clean the pre-filter. I tried an external filter and found that to be VERY noisy (it lasted one trip and I threw it in the trash). Installed the S&B at 900 miles and will never own another machine without one.
I can't divulge that information, it is a trade secret
Just kidding. It is rather simple to do with an additional relay and a diode. You use the "start" circuit to trigger the second relay and after energized, you feed the relayed ignition+ back to itself to hold it on until you kill the ignition. You MUST use the diode or it will keep the engine cranking. Something like this...
906UP
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I ordered the S&B particle separator last night, I've had enough of worrying about the air filter & I dont like opening the airbox more than necessary. I have the back window so I plan to mount it to the Factory UTV spare tire hoop instead. I'll post pics when its done.
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