BOX1

P700 Clutch Life

M

MarkTaylor

New Member
Jan 22, 2017
1
0
1
Georgetown, Ca. 95634
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Does anyone know how long a clutch should last in an 2014 Pioneer 4, 700? Also, it seems to be lacking power just a little so I went to check the timing. when i remove the timing plug oil spits out of it. Is that normal?
 
Last edited:
swsebek

swsebek

Red,White And Blue Collar Soul
Lifetime Member
May 4, 2014
2,854
5,828
113
pa
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Clutch should darn near last forever, ECM decides when to shift based on speed.And you may have a little oil in the TDC check plug.
 
Tflynn

Tflynn

Not a liberal
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
Jan 12, 2015
2,502
3,844
113
Northern California
Ownership

  1. 700-2
The other guys are probably right when they say "forever". I can say from personal experience it lasts over 5000 miles. Only a handful of times I've experienced slipping but that was only because I didn't let it warm up all the way on a cold day.

A somewhat common problem (when I say common I mean I've heard of it 2-3 times) on the 2014 models is the baffles in the muffler breaking off and restricting exhaust flow, resulting in a loss of power most noticeable at higher speeds/rpm's. I'm not certain that's what you're experiencing but since you have a 2014 it's worth mentioning.
 
swsebek

swsebek

Red,White And Blue Collar Soul
Lifetime Member
May 4, 2014
2,854
5,828
113
pa
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Yes he is correct it does have torque converter."A Fancy clutch"The torque converter has three clutches. One for each gear.The vehicle doesn't have the power to destroy itself.Should last forever.unless you run oil empty
 
  • Like
Reactions: jawquin and Tflynn
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Yes he is correct it does have torque converter."A Fancy clutch"The torque converter has three clutches. One for each gear.The vehicle doesn't have the power to destroy itself.Should last forever.unless you run oil empty
What if the torque converter doesn't engage correctly? My 700 was acting like it had a stall so to speak. The oil level was full and on a pretty fresh change. The fan hadn't been running which I didn't notice until I noticed the converter. I let it cool down for about 10 minutes and it worked fine for about 10 minutes then it did it again. (Still no fan, temp signs 2 bars) I let it cool and put it on the trailer. Tomorrow I'm going to test the fan. Can engine temp make the converter act like that?
 
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
The other guys are probably right when they say "forever". I can say from personal experience it lasts over 5000 miles. Only a handful of times I've experienced slipping but that was only because I didn't let it warm up all the way on a cold day.

A somewhat common problem (when I say common I mean I've heard of it 2-3 times) on the 2014 models is the baffles in the muffler breaking off and restricting exhaust flow, resulting in a loss of power most noticeable at higher speeds/rpm's. I'm not certain that's what you're experiencing but since you have a 2014 it's worth mentioning.
Any problems with torque converters? Mine was acting like a stall las week when I let it get hot by accident.(didn't notice the fan hadn't been running) oil full fairly fresh change
 
swsebek

swsebek

Red,White And Blue Collar Soul
Lifetime Member
May 4, 2014
2,854
5,828
113
pa
Ownership

  1. 700-4
What if the torque converter doesn't engage correctly? My 700 was acting like it had a stall so to speak. The oil level was full and on a pretty fresh change. The fan hadn't been running which I didn't notice until I noticed the converter. I let it cool down for about 10 minutes and it worked fine for about 10 minutes then it did it again. (Still no fan, temp signs 2 bars) I let it cool and put it on the trailer. Tomorrow I'm going to test the fan. Can engine temp make the converter act like that?
Jeff I'm no expert but this machine uses the same oil for everything. So I'm thinking if you are over heating the engine I would think it would have effects on the performance of the converter. But you should. E able to start it up and try it after she cools down. Electric fans have been biting the dust a lot on these 700s. Mine runs all the time.
Some one else may chime in on this to answer a little more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeffwheelin
DG Rider

DG Rider

Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
Aug 14, 2013
9,174
41,533
113
Casa Grande, AZ
Ownership

  1. 700-2
Torque converters can be tough things to understand, so if your're interested in trying, i would suggest Google and a nice cold beverage. A TC is essentially a fluid coupling, which always has some slip.
During the 70's gas crisis, a great desire for increased fuel economy (by eliminating the "slip") led to the development of "lock-up" torque converters. Lock-up TC's have a clutch, applied hydraulically under certain conditions. Non lock up converters have no clutch.

The TC in the 700 is non-lockup. All 3 of the clutches are in the tranny. It does have a one way bearing (for engine braking) which sometimes mistakenly gets referred to as a "sprag clutch", even though its not.

Being non-clockup, the TC on the 700 has no literal connection from the crankshaft to the tranny...all power delivery is done through the fluid (oil in the 700's case, ATF in most everything else).

Now we have to know what you mean by "stall"?
If it is literally is like a manual tranny with a malfunctioning clutch lever/pedal to the point where you have to stand on the brakes until the engine dies to stop, this would have to be something in the converter seized and preventing it from slipping as it should.

IF you mean the machine still has some forward drive at idle (AKA, the "creep control" isn't working), but can be held easily with the brakes, it could simply be in limp in mode, which often diables the creep control. You overheating could be doing this if the check engine light is coming on.
 
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Torque converters can be tough things to understand, so if your're interested in trying, i would suggest Google and a nice cold beverage. A TC is essentially a fluid coupling, which always has some slip.
During the 70's gas crisis, a great desire for increased fuel economy (by eliminating the "slip") led to the development of "lock-up" torque converters. Lock-up TC's have a clutch, applied hydraulically under certain conditions. Non lock up converters have no clutch.

The TC in the 700 is non-lockup. All 3 of the clutches are in the tranny. It does have a one way bearing (for engine braking) which sometimes mistakenly gets referred to as a "sprag clutch", even though its not.

Being non-clockup, the TC on the 700 has no literal connection from the crankshaft to the tranny...all power delivery is done through the fluid (oil in the 700's case, ATF in most everything else).

Now we have to know what you mean by "stall"?
If it is literally is like a manual tranny with a malfunctioning clutch lever/pedal to the point where you have to stand on the brakes until the engine dies to stop, this would have to be something in the converter seized and preventing it from slipping as it should.

IF you mean the machine still has some forward drive at idle (AKA, the "creep control" isn't working), but can be held easily with the brakes, it could simply be in limp in mode, which often diables the creep control. You overheating could be doing this if the check engine light is coming on.
When I said stall what I meant is that the engine had to rev pretty high to engage the converter. There was no creep mode at all. It was push the accelerator down probably 2500/3k rpm then it would spin out and go. I didn't go far only a couple feet because I was in a tight muddy trail. Once it cooled it worked as it should. I'm going to test the fan tomorrow.
 
DG Rider

DG Rider

Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
Aug 14, 2013
9,174
41,533
113
Casa Grande, AZ
Ownership

  1. 700-2
When I said stall what I meant is that the engine had to rev pretty high to engage the converter. There was no creep mode at all. It was push the accelerator down probably 2500/3k rpm then it would spin out and go. I didn't go far only a couple feet because I was in a tight muddy trail. Once it cooled it worked as it should. I'm going to test the fan tomorrow.
Well...nevermind then...LOL!
Yeah...like a high stall converter? I kind think the 700 could use that...but if the oil level is ok, id see how it does cooled off. I can also see the Throttle Position Sensor may be causing that.
 
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Well...nevermind then...LOL!
Yeah...like a high stall converter? I kind think the 700 could use that...but if the oil level is ok, id see how it does cooled off. I can also see the Throttle Position Sensor may be causing that.
Thanks for the advice. I'll dig into that tomorrow as well, and let you know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DG Rider
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
When I said stall what I meant is that the engine had to rev pretty high to engage the converter. There was no creep mode at all. It was push the accelerator down probably 2500/3k rpm then it would spin out and go. I didn't go far only a couple feet because I was in a tight muddy trail. Once it cooled it worked as it should. I'm going to test the fan tomorrow.
It was the fan. Temp gauge didn't send a dummy light. After cleaning the contact son the plug that runs to the fan, it properly cooled the engine.
 
J

Jeffwheelin

New Member
Sep 1, 2018
6
5
3
Mo
Ownership

  1. 700-4
Thanks for the advice. I'll dig into that tomorrow as well, and let you know.
Fan was the issue. Cleaned the contacts and hooked it directly up to 12 volts and it spun. Dirty unsealed wire harness was the issue. When the motor oil gets to hot it will make the converter act up. The fan ran as it should after that and the converter did too. I put 30 miles on it today and she never missed a beat.
 
DG Rider

DG Rider

Member: Triple Clutch Club
Lifetime Member
Aug 14, 2013
9,174
41,533
113
Casa Grande, AZ
Ownership

  1. 700-2
Fan was the issue. Cleaned the contacts and hooked it directly up to 12 volts and it spun. Dirty unsealed wire harness was the issue. When the motor oil gets to hot it will make the converter act up. The fan ran as it should after that and the converter did too. I put 30 miles on it today and she never missed a beat.
If it got that hot, I'd be very tempted to change the oil.

Glad you got it straightened out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeffwheelin
BOX2
box3

About us

  • Our community has been around for many years and pride ourselves on offering unbiased, critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best.

User Menu

Buy us a beer!

  • Lots of time and money has gone into making sure the community is running the best software, best designs, and all the other bells and whistles. Care to buy us a beer? We'd really appreciate it!

    Beer Fund!

    Club Membership!