P1000 Clutch Replacement

[HondaTech]

For the guys who have done their own clutches, are you guys just pulling the back clutch off and not the whole assembly with the gear attached? Just curious to see how you guys do it. Honda wanted us to pull the whole rear cover off, but now their just pulling the clutch off so you don't have to set the balancer gear tension. Which requires removing the back cover.

 

[sharp]

For the guys who have done their own clutches, are you guys just pulling the back clutch off and not the whole assembly with the gear attached? Just curious to see how you guys do it. Honda wanted us to pull the whole rear cover off, but now their just pulling the clutch off so you don't have to set the balancer gear tension. Which requires removing the back cover.

Ask @CumminsPusher or @Hondasxs they just did a whole process on clutch replacement on here. I hope this helps.

 

[Hondasxs]

We built a how-2. Let me find it.
I would like your input on what Honda recommends.

 

[Hondasxs]

Here P1000 - Honda Pioneer 1000 Clutch Replacement - A How To Guide!

So far this is the only one I know of that has come forth with doing it on there own. CP did a great job.

I would like to ask you what all Honda recommends.
Maybe add that to it.

Thanks.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm curious as well. If you didn't pull the whole unit it would be easier to just throw clutches in but my basket was hot and it comes with the clutches


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[Delton]

I'm curious as well. If you didn't pull the whole unit it would be easier to just throw clutches in but my basket was hot and it comes with the clutches


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No way I would've used your old basket. That poor thing was roasted lol

 

[CumminsPusher]

Ya me either!


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[HondaTech]

You actually can't buy just plates/steels atm from Honda, you have to buy the whole assembly. The guy from Honda I talked to acted like their new procedure was to pull just the 1-3-5-R clutch basket off the assembly and install the new. This would allow you to keep from risking seal damage on the Trans shaft and save a lot of time. But I didn't go in depth as I was having issues reintializing the clutch after reassembly (nicked a seal on the shaft). This would make this a hour job a most for me, instead of 2. A quick tip for you guys, if you do pull the whole clutch assembly (gear and both clutches) grease the shaft seals before putting it back on. Less chance of nicking those things and causing a reintialization problem, which I fought for 2 days on the 2 units I did last week.

@CP Your write up was great, but the gear that the clutch sandwiches rides on a spring loaded gear the the drivers side of the clutch. Without removing the rear cover, you can't tension this gear. I'm not 100% why it needs tensioned, but it unloads when you remove the clutch. Just thought Id give you a heads up in case you get a weird noise or funny action from your clutch later on. This is the reason to pull the whole rear cover and the reason I asked if you guys were just pulling the basket off or pulling the whole clutch assembly off (gear and 2-4-6 clutch included).

 

[CumminsPusher]

What Delton was meaning is just leave the basket and switch clutches. I'm not sure how you'd get the basket out without pulling the assembly. The basket is almost pressed on and had to be tapped off i couldn't imagine doing that in the transmission. That's weird they'd suggest that


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[HondaTech]

That's what I'm trying to figure out when the Honda rep said they had a different procedure. He specifically asked about pulling the "whole rear of the engine off" then said something about a revised procedure.

The only real reason to pull the rear cover, oil tank, and valve body is to reset the gear inside the rear of the engine. But they also wanted us to pull the oil pan, and clean the pickup tube as well. Even with all this I can do one in maybe 3 or 4 hours max. Again I'm not sure what that gears tension does, but I know Honda uses tensioned balancer gear in several engines.

We use 2 pry bars to separate the baskets.

 

[CumminsPusher]

So I'm assuming my procedure is the prior Honda specs? I'm trying to figure the tensioned gear and get what you're saying but is there any blow ups of this? Or tension specs? I know many here are concerned about the clutches (myself was included) and would love to be able to do it themselves if warranty is denied from larger tires or something as stupid as a picture on the internet. Changing is not a big deal seemed very straight forward but if there is something else it would be nice to know.
What seal was knicked the plastics or the rubbers? Rubber would be tough but If the plastic ones they should be placed on after the whole assembly is installed and wouldn't get bunged up on cover install if grease was used I wouldn't think?
When I got my rig back from the dealer I had asked and they told me the clutches if replaced were fully ready to go back in(a grain of salt for sure as they hadn't done one and called Honda just to be informed to take the cover off and look, the info I gave them when walking in about 135 clutches being bad cost 500 for them to tell me what I told them)after I got home I placed 135 in 246 basket so it wouldn't slip going in to gear in 1,r and could paddle past the others. Installed and it worked fine minus obviously now 246 being soft, 75ish miles and finished the weekend. I then came back home replaced everything with new and ran it over 100 miles feels great. How could that become worse? Not only would I like to do it correctly but I would also love others to as well.
I did use the two pry bars as well but it felt like I was placing too much pressure on the plate so a light tap on the shaft took care of that.
If someone had a good basket they definitely could pull the retaining clip on 135 side and replace only the clutches and steels,if the tensioning gear is actually a problem.
Initializing actually went pretty well with the procedure that @JACKAL had posted and sure appreciate all his work on this site as well.
Im very appreciative on the info and responses from you on here as well though and am listening not trying to argue I hope that's seen but I'm trying to see past what I saw so thank you very much for any input


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[HondaTech]

I haven't seen any issues with the gear not being tensioned, I'm not sure again what it does. The old way Honda wanted it done was to remove the whole rear cover of the engine, including the oil tank, and valve body. Then clean the oil pickup tube in the oil pan and flush everything inside the system. The way you did it (except removing the entire assembly) is the way I think they want it done now, but then again I'm not sure.

The gear inside the engine is only tensioned about 1 and 1/2 teeth. It's a double gear that has hole to line it up with a punch and then insert a 6mm bolt to hold it until you've got the clutch in, then you can release it. I've found the best way is to hoid it with the punch, so you can wiggle it a little to line the gears up. Im not 100% sure what the heck this does, but it must be something or Honda wouldn't have put it in there.

As far as the seals, you mentioned the 2 on the end of the shaft, well there are 4 larger ones on the shaft. One unit I did had a couple nicked from me putting the clutch on. This allowed oil to bleed around the clutch and not push the pistons out when reinitializing. That's why I mentioned greasing the shaft seals good before reinstalling the clutch assembly. If you look at a parts diagram on the slide labeled Transmission, you mentioned Part #1 in your post, well the seals I'm discussing are Part #2. Parts Diagram labeled Final Driven Shaft show shows the tensioned gear I'm referring to.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Great information! I really appreciate your time. Two of the four seals you wouldn't need to replace though with one side. I'm wondering if that tensioned gear is just for ease of install? At any rate I appreciate your input and will be adjusting things to go along with that with @Hondasxs s permission. I will get new seals for mine ordered and pull back out so it has the correct pictures. I do believe I won't have problems but I'd like to stick closely to Honda guidelines for the write up. Thank you very much @HondaTech we all appreciate you


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[HondaTech]

The orings you showed on the clutch assembly are different then the ones Im discussing. The seals (part #2) in the diagram are on the trans shaft not the clutch assembly. When installing the assembly (clutch baskets and gear) on to the shaft I nicked two of this seals. They aren't really orings, but more of a fiber flat ring that splits in the middle to make installing them easier.

Anything I can help you guys with I can, I hate to see Honda riders stuck in a situation I wouldn't want to be in.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Ok you were talking about the two plastics on on the shaft itself. I had mentioned greasing the new ones pulling off the old ones carefully in case you had a problem with a new one for that very reason. I can see if you don't get the split section on correctly or possibly on install of the basket could be a problem.


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[HondaTech]

Yeah, there are 4 more larger ones on the shaft back inside the engine that separate the oil going to each clutch.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Well third times the charm. Put used stuff back together for a ride, last time was to install everything new this time will just be for fun I guess.


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[Hometeam]

Well third times the charm. Put used stuff back together for a ride, last time was to install everything new this time will just be for fun I guess.


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I got a question for you and @HondaTech...since you have been internally in these motors and clutch setups, do you feel that there is any reason that synthetic oil should not be used in this motor and trans? I feel like both of you have stated that it is really not any different than any other wet clutch set up just that there are 2 of them. If that's the case then synthetic or non-synthetic oil shouldn't make a difference on the clutches themselves??

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'll be 100% honest and say I don't think it matters at all for the clutches but possibly the shifting solenoids may not function the exact same which could possibly effect the clutches. It was brought to my attention from hondasxs himself who has talked with many and directly from Honda while I was talking to them. its my belief that if any synthetic is bad they all would be. I'm a firm believer in in Rotella as many know but going back to the safe route and try to piss off Honda less and run gn4. If it's possible that synthetic could cause a problem I am very confident that all would regardless of what name is on the bottle because they are slicker causing shifts to change. Honda specifically designed this machine with said oil. Shift points, clutching are based off of that and also the temperature of the oil from what I'm learning.I would say if you're using the machine hard then use recommended, if very easy on it (because it does shift easier) synthetic would probably be ok. Imo. If you look at automotive transmissions the harder shifts usually bring life,softer slips more and causes heat/friction.
With all that said it would be crappy to have a clutch issue and have Honda say no down the road on oil.

 

[HondaTech]

I won't use synthetic in any machine I own, ever. I've see what it does to the inside of engines. We've torn apart Goldwings with nothing but Honda straight oil their whole lif and theit clean as whistle. Open one up with synthetic oil and it's black like you painted the insides with spray paint.

I own and have owned several Honda products. Including several 3 wheelers, a 420 Rancher, Grom, Cr250, Crf250 and a goldwing. None of them ever had synthetic in them and none ever will.