Clutches are dead yet again

[Boomboom907]

Within 150 miles from each other, two clutch packs have failed. Pretty disappointed. Off to the shop yet again.

I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I think I'm gonna consignment sale the pig and just take the loss. Every time I go out something breaks

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[Cuoutdoors]

Sorry to hear that. How many miles on the rig total? Tells us more of the background. Mods on the machine, what were you doing when it failed?

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[Boomboom907]

In a skeg. These machines simply aren't designed to work in muskeg. Simple as that.

I have 30 intimidators
Hilifter a arms
2.5 inch lift.

I did t into my oil cooler for a heater. I'm not sure if that had anything to do this time, but either way I'm taking it out, gonna just throw a coupler where the t is and revert to stock.

I'm pretty unhappy. In my opinion I didn't ride it hard enough today to damage anything. We winched out and slowly turned the tires till they grabbed. Once the tires grabbed we slowly crept out using the winch.

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[ncred02]

That really sucks. Hate for you. So warranty is out of the question?

 

[Amre2me2]

Has anyone heard of someone running 30s that HASNT had clutch problems?

 

[ohanacreek]

Has anyone heard of someone running 30s that HASNT had clutch problems?

@joeymt33

 

[Boomboom907]

That really sucks. Hate for you. So warranty is out of the question?

Oh no. This is certainly warranty work. Whether my tires have to come off before I drop it off or what.

My shop doesn't care about mods. The regional reps do. So it's a gamble.

Smaller tires wouldn't have helped anything. stuck tires are stuck tires. Only thing that would have helped was bald tires.

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[Boomboom907]

Here's the stuck. Sucky deal is we used a 4500 lb winch and I really babied it and made sure my wheels were turning. I feel like I did everything right.

Then as we winched up and my tires started doing tire things, I feathered the clutches. Only for about 5-7 seconds in total. But the winch was doing the work. All I was trying to do was rotate the tires so I wasn't plowing mud.

Imho that should have wore the clutches a little, not burnt them to a crisp.

White smoke was blowing out my tailpipe. Looked like a gasket gave or something. Checked my oil and everything looked good. Idk what's going on. It went away after a few miles. Maybe clutches cooled off? This rigs been nothing but problems for me, though admittedly one or two of those problems we're self induced.

I just don't feel like this rig should bear the Honda name. We've never had a Honda that you had to baby, and if it got stuck it certainly wasn't going to break. I think it's just a tad ridiculous that if you get stuck you cannot use the throttle at all or your clutches die. You have to winch 100% out all the way back to hard pack before using the throttle or what?

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[swsebek]

Hondas fault,Yep

 

[ohanacreek]

Here's the stuck. Sucky deal is we used a 4500 lb winch and I really babied it and made sure my wheels were turning. I feel like I did everything right.

Then as we winched up and my tires started doing tire things, I feathered the clutches. Only for about 5-7 seconds in total. But the winch was doing the work. All I was trying to do was rotate the tires so I wasn't plowing mud.

Imho that should have wore the clutches a little, not burnt them to a crisp.

White smoke was blowing out my tailpipe. Looked like a gasket gave or something. Checked my oil and everything looked good. Idk what's going on. It went away after a few miles. Maybe clutches cooled off? This rigs been nothing but problems for me, though admittedly one or two of those problems we're self induced.

I just don't feel like this rig should bear the Honda name. We've never had a Honda that you had to baby, and if it got stuck it certainly wasn't going to break. I think it's just a tad ridiculous that if you get stuck you cannot use the throttle at all or your clutches die. You have to winch 100% out all the way back to hard pack before using the throttle or what?View attachment 46533View attachment 46534

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Do you have a second battery for the winch, or were you draining the main battery winching?

If the main battery drops below 12v (which can be done in seconds with a 4500lb winch) the clutch Solenoid cuts out making it easier to kill the clutches. Once the battery charges back the clutch solenoid engages again.

I have my accessories isolated from the main battery and a voltmeter to watch both batteries.



P1000m5 - The Mistress

 

[wyodlr]

In a skeg. These machines simply aren't designed to work in muskeg. Simple as that.

I have 30 intimidators
Hilifter a arms
2.5 inch lift.

I did t into my oil cooler for a heater. I'm not sure if that had anything to do this time, but either way I'm taking it out, gonna just throw a coupler where the t is and revert to stock.

I'm pretty unhappy. In my opinion I didn't ride it hard enough today to damage anything. We winched out and slowly turned the tires till they grabbed. Once the tires grabbed we slowly crept out using the winch.

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You put a t in the oil cooler for your heater and not in a radiator hose. Anything in the oil line could cause problems

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Do you have a second battery for the winch, or were you draining the main battery winching?

If the main battery drops below 12v (which can be done in seconds with a 4500lb winch) the clutch Solenoid cuts out making it easier to kill the clutches. Once the battery charges back the clutch solenoid engages again.

I have my accessories isolated from the main battery and a voltmeter to watch both batteries.



P1000m5 - The Mistress

View attachment 46540

I don't disagree that this should be done, I do fault Honda though for not including this in the machine from the factory if the clutch solenoids are that sensitive (and I have no doubt they are). They offer a Warn ProVantage 4500 lb winch as a Honda branded option and require you to buy a wiring harness and a winch mount. They should have included a battery isolator as a part of the wiring harness package and specified that you need an extra battery. There is already a place under the hood for it.

Leaving it for customers to figure out in the field (after smoking their clutches) is not good for their brand.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

In a skeg. These machines simply aren't designed to work in muskeg. Simple as that.

I have 30 intimidators
Hilifter a arms
2.5 inch lift.

I did t into my oil cooler for a heater. I'm not sure if that had anything to do this time, but either way I'm taking it out, gonna just throw a coupler where the t is and revert to stock.

I'm pretty unhappy. In my opinion I didn't ride it hard enough today to damage anything. We winched out and slowly turned the tires till they grabbed. Once the tires grabbed we slowly crept out using the winch.

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So how many engine RPMs were you turning when you "slowly turned the tires"? Were you still in the clutch "red zone" do you think? Like 2-3K RPMs with very few tire RPMs?

When you said you tapped into the oil cooler for your heater, what do you mean?

 

[Plongson]

I agree, it would be nice to just stand on the throttle like it had a torque converter but with clutches...you have to think like you have your left foot (or left hand) on a standard manual clutch and you're essentially slipping it. There is hardly a clutch out there that will stand up to hard ass slipping...They just burn up...slip a clutch and they are gone, some sooner than others.

It would have been GREAT if the engineers had incorporated a torque converter AND the dual clutch setup for this kind of abuse, but unfortunately they did not...

The PK's need to be used within their design parameters and not treated like it was a boat, airplane, or Class 7 off road truck. You can do these things, but not with a poor little PK at $17,000...maybe a $100,000 monster is a better choice. Just say'n...

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I agree, it would be nice to just stand on the throttle like it had a torque converter but with clutches...you have to think like you have your left foot (or left hand) on a standard manual clutch and you're essentially slipping it. There is hardly a clutch out there that will stand up to hard ass slipping...They just burn up...slip a clutch and they are gone, some sooner than others.

It would have been GREAT if the engineers had incorporated a torque converter AND the dual clutch setup for this kind of abuse, but unfortunately they did not...

The PK's need to be used within their design parameters and not treated like it was a boat, airplane, or Class 7 off road truck. You can do these things, but not with a poor little PK at $17,000...maybe a $100,000 monster is a better choice. Just say'n...

What is odd is Honda uses that setup in their DCT passenger cars to prevent clutch wear and improve customer satisfaction and they brag on how their automotive engineering division helped with the development of the I-4WD. Why not the DCT?

 

[elkaholic]

What is odd is Honda uses that setup in their DCT passenger cars to prevent clutch wear and improve customer satisfaction and they brag on how their automotive engineering division helped with the development of the I-4WD. Why not the DCT?

You are right. My commuter car (150 miles round trip) has a Honda DCT in it and it is one of the things that pointed me towards the P1K


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[joeymt33]

Has anyone heard of someone running 30s that HASNT had clutch problems?

Coming up on 2000 miles, no clutch issues yet....

 

[Plongson]

I'm willing to bet the Honda passenger cars with DCT are not up to the window sills in Muskeg...

Some of these units are being abused like only Honda engineers could dream in a nightmare.

 

[Jshell3]

I'm willing to bet the Honda passenger cars with DCT are not up to the window sills in Muskeg...

Some of these units are being abused like only Honda engineers could dream in a nightmare.

I give you

Exhibit A

 

[GPR1500SC]

Honda does use a torque converter in there DCT cars or at least my nephews does.
A torque converter would add more weight to a already heavy machine.