P1000 DCT vs Torque Converter

[JAL]

I have some ? about why Honda uses a DCT in the Pioneer 1000-5 instead of a torque converter:

I like the advantage of direct drive in the Pioneer 1000-5, especially when going downhill using the engine as a brake.
On the other hand, I hear stories of folks burning out their clutch. Some say it is due to low voltage while pulling with the winch confusing the electronic controls. Others say it is being "stuck" or using high gear instead of low, and getting on the throttle.

So my ? is why use an automatic clutch at all instead of a lowly torque converter for a vehicle that is likely to get "stuck" a lot. I would rather loose some power through a torque converter, than risk burning out a DCT.

I do realize it is possible to overheat a torque converter.

 

[Admin]

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Don't some of the honda atvs have a torque converter?

 

[Russ989]

Don't some of the honda atvs have a torque converter?

Rincon and the Pioneer 700 do.

 

[Smitty335]

Don't some of the honda atvs have a torque converter?

M has one!

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Rincon and the Pioneer 700 do.

Thought Rincon and Rubicon both did

 

[906UP]

Thought Rincon and Rubicon both did

Rubicon uses a DCT also

 

[Plumber32]

Both have advantages.

 

[Russ989]

Both have advantages.

I wouldn’t have a DTC, they’re horrible! High and low side plus paddle shifters and a sport mode. I wish Honda would do something more advanced like the belt drive machines. 😂

 

[Russ989]

Thought Rincon and Rubicon both did

Not 100% sure on that but I thought the Foreman Rubicon was either electric push button shift like the Pioneer 500 or DCT.

 

[906UP]

Not 100% sure on that but I thought the Foreman Rubicon was either electric push button shift like the Pioneer 500 or DCT.

The base Foreman has the same engine/trans as the P5/5.2, the Foreman Rubicon has a DCT. I guess both could have push buttons, the paddles in all the Pioneers/Talons are just levers that actuate an electrical switch.

 

[Russ989]

The base Foreman has the same engine/trans as the P5/5.2, the Foreman Rubicon has a DCT. I guess both could have push buttons, the paddles in all the Pioneers/Talons are just levers that actuate an electrical switch.

There are times I wish I would have bought one. That what I went to pick up and brought a P5 home. I’d have a lot more money today! 😂

 

[906UP]

There are times I wish I would have bought one. That what I went to pick up and brought a P5 home. I’d have a lot more money today! 😂

I blame Mrs & lil' 906UP for this mess.... lil' complained how rough her Bruin was riding one day while we were out with the quads so I let her ride my Kodiak with IRS & I rode her Bruin, I never got my quad back. Started looking for another quad when Mrs said let's get a SxS so I can just ride along and her we are. $$$$$ POOF!!!

 

[CID]

The base Foreman has the same engine/trans as the P5/5.2, the Foreman Rubicon has a DCT. I guess both could have push buttons, the paddles in all the Pioneers/Talons are just levers that actuate an electrical switch.

Well, yabbutt, then I couldn't brag about havin' a paddle shiftin' dirt kart - drives the KRXy girls krazie.

 

[HondaTech]

Old Rubicon 01-14 had a hydrostatic transmission with no "gears".

'15 and up can be had in a foot shift or DCT version. The foot shift is similar to the older Honda atvs. Manual shifting with an auto clutch.

The reason behind the Converter vs DCT is most likely packaging. The converter trans has a single clutch for each gear. Its very similar to a automotive transmission. Fitting 6 gears would be a hassle. The DCT allows more gears in the same basic size as a regular constant mesh transmission.

 

[906UP]

Well, yabbutt, then I couldn't brag about havin' a paddle shiftin' dirt kart - drives the KRXy girls krazie.

I love the paddles. Not sure if you're a Top Gear/Grand Tour fan but I always hear "Flappy Paddle Gearbox" in Jeremy Clarkson's voice when I'm slamming gears 🤣

 

[906UP]

Old Rubicon 01-14 had a hydrostatic transmission with no "gears".

'15 and up can be had in a foot shift or DCT version. The foot shift is similar to the older Honda atvs. Manual shifting with an auto clutch.

The reason behind the Converter vs DCT is most likely packaging. The converter trans has a single clutch for each gear. Its very similar to a automotive transmission. Fitting 6 gears would be a hassle. The DCT allows more gears in the same basic size as a regular constant mesh transmission.

That sounds like a pain in the azz to work on

 

[HondaTech]

That sounds like a pain in the azz to work on

Not really, as long as the oil gets changed regularly they will go for many miles, I personally seen over 20k miles on multiple machines.

There's not really anything in the engine besides the hydrostatic unit, oil pump, a sub transmission (low, drive, reverse) and flywheel. If the hydrostat goes bad you just replace it. Its not serviceable.

 

[CID]

I love the paddles. Not sure if you're a Top Gear/Grand Tour fan but I always hear "Flappy Paddle Gearbox" in Jeremy Clarkson's voice when I'm slamming gears 🤣

I'm too 'seniorly gifted', I refuse to pay to watch TV, never had, never will have, cable. #colormefrugal

 

[DG Rider]

I've always kinda thought the torque converter makes the 700 (pioneer or Big Red) and Rincon kind of a special machine.
There is no clutch slip other than a nano second when changing/engaging gears. Same as your truck/car when you put it in drive. Honda avoids the bit of creep you get from auto cars by simply not applying the 1st/reverse clutch until it sees throttle opening from the TPS (aka- "creep control"). You may have noticed the slight lunge when slowly opening the throttle...
This also makes them all pretty much idiot proof, since no amount of poor throttle application or driving in the wrong gear will hurt them. All that slip is handled by the converter.

And that's the down side: efficiency. There is always some some slip and wasted energy. The automotive world dealt with this way back in the 70's with "lock up" torque converter a which have a literal clutch between the slipping halves that can be applied to lock them together. The converters in these do not have those...and there is no reason for them to, honestly.
And that slip may be another thing: it sure seems to me like the 700 has a magical ability to hook up in slippery conditions. Is it that slip rounding the sharp edges off each power pulse?
Or maybe it's the tall gearing? Or the fact that the 700 doesn't have a lot of power? Maybe, maybe not.

There are certainly times when chugging up a hill that the drivetrain seems perfect and golden, and I can't help but grin. Someday around 2042, Honda may finally give the 700 some updates, and it will probably get a DCT of some sort, but I will always wonder what this drivetrain could have done with a low range.

 

[JAL]

I've always kinda thought the torque converter makes the 700 (pioneer or Big Red) and Rincon kind of a special machine.
There is no clutch slip other than a nano second when changing/engaging gears. Same as your truck/car when you put it in drive. Honda avoids the bit of creep you get from auto cars by simply not applying the 1st/reverse clutch until it sees throttle opening from the TPS (aka- "creep control"). You may have noticed the slight lunge when slowly opening the throttle...
This also makes them all pretty much idiot proof, since no amount of poor throttle application or driving in the wrong gear will hurt them. All that slip is handled by the converter.

And that's the down side: efficiency. There is always some some slip and wasted energy. The automotive world dealt with this way back in the 70's with "lock up" torque converter a which have a literal clutch between the slipping halves that can be applied to lock them together. The converters in these do not have those...and there is no reason for them to, honestly.
And that slip may be another thing: it sure seems to me like the 700 has a magical ability to hook up in slippery conditions. Is it that slip rounding the sharp edges off each power pulse?
Or maybe it's the tall gearing? Or the fact that the 700 doesn't have a lot of power? Maybe, maybe not.

There are certainly times when chugging up a hill that the drivetrain seems perfect and golden, and I can't help but grin. Someday around 2042, Honda may finally give the 700 some updates, and it will probably get a DCT of some sort, but I will always wonder what this drivetrain could have done with a low range.

DGRider... Thanks for taking my question seriously. So it sounds like the torque converter is more idiot proof and the DCT is more efficient and allows for a low range. That is the information I was looking for.

As for some of the some of the other responses: I hope when your kids and grandkids go to a new forum and ask dumb questions they will be treated with respect. We are all newbies when we try something new.