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Bandit tension springs with Weller Racing re valve . I don't jump it on purpose BUT it happens . First trip out after Weller I did hit a jump accidentally and I was surprised that it landed 75% better then before . Have I did that exact jump before ? No . It was just a little nose down and the landing was comfortable .
SLOWPOKE693
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I 2nd this, morphed my GMs machine into a whole different animal.
Same here! Gary at G-Force has done the suspension on my X and it is flat awesome. I did springs, valving, and high/low compression adjusters. The high/low compression adjusters is not something that everyone does but I think it is an upgrade worth the money. The QS3 doesn't flow as well as the full range adjustment does....SLOWPOKE is absolutely right when he says "it turns it into a completely different animal". My riding style is aggressive. I am confident you would not be disappointed with Gary's work!
I am following this thread....I have a 2021 X live valve but the suspension is a bit harsh on small bumps. Kinda makes me a bit angry that I opted for live valve upgrade but seems like I still need work done. The 2021 X has crossover rings and tender springs that are not in coil bind from factory so they have made a few changes...
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I have been tire kicking Talon Xs for almost a year...asking (bugging) YouTube channels and forum members about them. I am fully confident I could beat the heck out of the Talon and not have mechanical issues, but the nose dive thing bugs me. I don't mind if it rides like a brick or if it rolls on it's side.. but flipping end over end is not a good time. Then this crazy Yamaha RMAX came out, but I feel it would be a ton of work to make that thing swamp proof. Anyways, keep the feedback flowing.
The Talon's suspension geometry (both the R and the X) makes it buck/nose dive. Shock tuning and weight redistribution can mitigate it but will never eliminate it. The geometry is better for rock crawling but not so good for high speed whoops and jumps.
The way the suspension is designed pushes the nose down while accelerating when the rear suspension is extended/drooped. The reasons differ between the R and the X but both have to do with the suspension mounts, center of gravity and the angle of drive at full droop. The only way to completely get rid of it is to modify the suspension geometry somehow. I have not looked at the X (trailing arm suspension) but on my R (4+ link suspension), to get the Anti-Squat below 100% and reduce/stop the bucking, I can...
This does not apply to the X, although I believe that the limit straps may help on the X also. Talon race team runs straps on the rear of the long version car (which is an X4 converted to a 2 seater race car). The straps appear to limit the rear a few inches so I am fairly sure they are trying to limit the droop to mitigate the bucking inherent in the Talon design, there is no reason other than that to run straps on the rear that I am aware of...
The way the suspension is designed pushes the nose down while accelerating when the rear suspension is extended/drooped. The reasons differ between the R and the X but both have to do with the suspension mounts, center of gravity and the angle of drive at full droop. The only way to completely get rid of it is to modify the suspension geometry somehow. I have not looked at the X (trailing arm suspension) but on my R (4+ link suspension), to get the Anti-Squat below 100% and reduce/stop the bucking, I can...
- Lower the lower front mount at least 1"
- Raise the upper front mount at least 1".
- Limit the rear droop at least 3" with limit straps.
- Combination of the above.
This does not apply to the X, although I believe that the limit straps may help on the X also. Talon race team runs straps on the rear of the long version car (which is an X4 converted to a 2 seater race car). The straps appear to limit the rear a few inches so I am fairly sure they are trying to limit the droop to mitigate the bucking inherent in the Talon design, there is no reason other than that to run straps on the rear that I am aware of...
Ok. So I have been kicking around spring replacement on my 2021 Talon X. But I cannot find specs on the tender spring spec for stock. I have heard go to 10-12” 150lbs. tender springs but no real data on results. My question is not knowing a base line could one just load up the back with predetermined amount of weight until you get the soft supple ride then, deduct little by little until the suspension rebounds an inch and get a base line that way?
CID
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One of Shock Therapy's videos says the Talon responds well to adding weight at the rear and I'll be doing that with Dirt Road Fabrication's tailgate/bed extender/spare carrier but I still intend on getting valve work done for the best results.
I can't help with sprig rates, I haven't seen much written anywhere on them.
I am trying to figure out what the stock spring rates are. None of the suspension companies build these springs- all they have done is test/tune and come up with a formula for what works best in thier application/opinion. Because springs are fairly cheap I want to tune in for my riding here in MN trails. Problem is you need to know the rate your starting with in order to start tuning. Given a spring weight is based off 1” compression per a given weight I am assuming one could do the math fairly easily unless I am missing something? Just take add or take out weight until 1” of compression and do the math?
www.talonsxsforums.com/threads/buying-individual-springs-for-a-talon-x.493/post-3296
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Yes, you are missing wheel scrub, suspension geometry/leverage, etc. A pound in the middle of the bed is not a pound on the spring. You need a spring gauge or a press and a scale to measure spring rates properly.
CID
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CID
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Hmmm, I can't link it either. 🤔 Go to hondasxsforum.com -> Forums -> Tech Section -> Brakes and Suspension -> Buying Individual Springs
https://www.talonsxsforums.com/threads/buying-individual-springs-for-a-talon-x.493/
Looks like this forum doesn't allow links to that forum. Here is the content of that post...
AZChuck writes...
I was lucky enough to get the following info from a very credible source who asked I not post their name. This table is for a 1000X.
This table is for a 1000R.
On the X, the combined spring rate until the upper spring is totally collapsed is 187 lbs/inch. When the upper spring collapses (very quickly with only a 3" length), the 350 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have. Seriously stiff!!
On the R, the combined spring rate is 125 lbs/inch, 2/3 that of the X. When you finally collapse the upper spring (if the shock travels that far), the 250 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have, again about 2/3 of the X. And that occurs after a much greater wheel travel.
I was looking at buying a new upper spring for my friend with the X, but it has a much smaller wheel travel since it is at least half compressed sitting still. Now I'm thinking replace the lower spring with 250 lb/inch like my R. The lowest price source for this spring is from LandrumSpring.com for $39 on sale. The springs are Chrome Silicon like everyone else. The only negative is that the longest length I can get is 14".
My problem with buying the spring kits from ST, Bandit and others is that you don't know the new spring length or the spring rate which is what you're trying to correct, kind of a blind date. Obviously they don't want to tell you, else you'd do what I'm doing!
With the above info, at least you can make a more informed decision if you go the way I'm planning.
Good Luck!!
AZChuck writes...
I was lucky enough to get the following info from a very credible source who asked I not post their name. This table is for a 1000X.
| Location | P/N | Free Length | Inside Diameter | Spring Rate |
| Front Upper | 039-00-441-1 | 6.4” | 2.5” | 275 |
| Front Lower | 039-00-443-1 | 11.75 | 2.5” | 300 |
| Rear Upper | 039-00-442-1 | 3.065 | 2.5” | 400 |
| Rear Lower | 039-00-444-1 | 15.7 | 2.5” | 350 |
This table is for a 1000R.
| Location | P/N | Free Length | Inside Diameter | Spring Rate |
| Front Upper | 039-00-451-8 | 5.9” | 3” | 350 |
| Front Lower | 039-00-453-8 | 15.1 | 3” | 225 |
| Rear Upper | 039-00-452-8 | 6.7 | 3” | 250 |
| Rear Lower | 039-00-454-8 | 15.9 | 3” | 250 |
On the R, the combined spring rate is 125 lbs/inch, 2/3 that of the X. When you finally collapse the upper spring (if the shock travels that far), the 250 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have, again about 2/3 of the X. And that occurs after a much greater wheel travel.
I was looking at buying a new upper spring for my friend with the X, but it has a much smaller wheel travel since it is at least half compressed sitting still. Now I'm thinking replace the lower spring with 250 lb/inch like my R. The lowest price source for this spring is from LandrumSpring.com for $39 on sale. The springs are Chrome Silicon like everyone else. The only negative is that the longest length I can get is 14".
My problem with buying the spring kits from ST, Bandit and others is that you don't know the new spring length or the spring rate which is what you're trying to correct, kind of a blind date. Obviously they don't want to tell you, else you'd do what I'm doing!
With the above info, at least you can make a more informed decision if you go the way I'm planning.
Good Luck!!
CID
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Oops, a day late and a dollar short. ☺
AZChuck's info from the talonsxsforum -
I was lucky enough to get the following info from a very credible source who asked I not post their name. This table is for a 1000X.
This table is for a 1000R.
On the X, the combined spring rate until the upper spring is totally collapsed is 187 lbs/inch. When the upper spring collapses (very quickly with only a 3" length), the 350 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have. Seriously stiff!!
On the R, the combined spring rate is 125 lbs/inch, 2/3 that of the X. When you finally collapse the upper spring (if the shock travels that far), the 250 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have, again about 2/3 of the X. And that occurs after a much greater wheel travel.
I was looking at buying a new upper spring for my friend with the X, but it has a much smaller wheel travel since it is at least half compressed sitting still. Now I'm thinking replace the lower spring with 250 lb/inch like my R. The lowest price source for this spring is from LandrumSpring.com for $39 on sale. The springs are Chrome Silicon like everyone else. The only negative is that the longest length I can get is 14".
My problem with buying the spring kits from ST, Bandit and others is that you don't know the new spring length or the spring rate which is what you're trying to correct, kind of a blind date. Obviously they don't want to tell you, else you'd do what I'm doing!
With the above info, at least you can make a more informed decision if you go the way I'm planning.
Good Luck!!
AZChuck's info from the talonsxsforum -
I was lucky enough to get the following info from a very credible source who asked I not post their name. This table is for a 1000X.
| Location | P/N | Free Length | Inside Diameter | Spring Rate |
| Front Upper | 039-00-441-1 | 6.4” | 2.5” | 275 |
| Front Lower | 039-00-443-1 | 11.75 | 2.5” | 300 |
| Rear Upper | 039-00-442-1 | 3.065 | 2.5” | 400 |
| Rear Lower | 039-00-444-1 | 15.7 | 2.5” | 350 |
This table is for a 1000R.
| Location | P/N | Free Length | Inside Diameter | Spring Rate |
| Front Upper | 039-00-451-8 | 5.9” | 3” | 350 |
| Front Lower | 039-00-453-8 | 15.1 | 3” | 225 |
| Rear Upper | 039-00-452-8 | 6.7 | 3” | 250 |
| Rear Lower | 039-00-454-8 | 15.9 | 3” | 250 |
On the R, the combined spring rate is 125 lbs/inch, 2/3 that of the X. When you finally collapse the upper spring (if the shock travels that far), the 250 lb/inch rate of the lower spring is what you have, again about 2/3 of the X. And that occurs after a much greater wheel travel.
I was looking at buying a new upper spring for my friend with the X, but it has a much smaller wheel travel since it is at least half compressed sitting still. Now I'm thinking replace the lower spring with 250 lb/inch like my R. The lowest price source for this spring is from LandrumSpring.com for $39 on sale. The springs are Chrome Silicon like everyone else. The only negative is that the longest length I can get is 14".
My problem with buying the spring kits from ST, Bandit and others is that you don't know the new spring length or the spring rate which is what you're trying to correct, kind of a blind date. Obviously they don't want to tell you, else you'd do what I'm doing!
With the above info, at least you can make a more informed decision if you go the way I'm planning.
Good Luck!!
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