P1000 Honda radiator Class Action Lawsuit

[Herbie]

I would like to know how many Pioneer 1000 owners have experienced engine overheating problems, like me.
Would like to know the conditions when it happens, and any other information of modifications, tire sizes, bumpers, etc.
I know there are a few of you out there, especially those that ride in high mountain elevations. My machine has overheated on mountain passes when a riding partner on a Polaris Ranger Crew 1000 Premium kept cool. Something is just not right.
Surely, we, as Honda Pioneer Owners, could force Honda to do something about their poor design. I am not a legal type, so maybe someone with a legal background could take this poll data and do something with it.

 

[bumperm]

I ride roughly 5 to 10 thousand feet, only have 600+ miles on a '21 SE and have only seen two bars for temperature . . . obviously no overheating at all. From reading this forum, I'd think most initial overheating issues have been caused by air entrained with the coolant. Others, those who mud or weed seed, from a clogged radiator.

 

[HondaTech]

Honda did issue an ecm update for 2017, 2018 and some 2019 models to fix and issue where the fan would not be triggered to come on and the machine would overheat.

Ive also heard of machines overfull on oil that have had overheating issues without being higher in elevation or ambient temp.

My GM said his would occasionally show 3 bars when climbing long steep hills at steady throttle input.

I doubt you'll get very far with anything though, Honda is a tough legal fight. With a Machine now 7 model years deep, your not going to get them to do anything.

 

[Herbie]

I ride roughly 5 to 10 thousand feet, only have 600+ miles on a '21 SE and have only seen two bars for temperature . . . obviously no overheating at all. From reading this forum, I'd think most initial overheating issues have been caused by air entrained with the coolant. Others, those who mud or weed seed, from a clogged radiator.

When the HondaSXS group road the Alpine loop from Silverton, CO in 2020, I was one of about 6 or so that had overheating issues, and most had not seen that problem before. Slow speed, long semi-steep inclines, and around 10,000 + ft elevations seems to be the key ingredients causing the overheating issues.

 

[Herbie]

Honda did issue an ecm update for 2017, 2018 and some 2019 models to fix and issue where the fan would not be triggered to come on and the machine would overheat.

Ive also heard of machines overfull on oil that have had overheating issues without being higher in elevation or ambient temp.

My GM said his would occasionally show 3 bars when climbing long steep hills at steady throttle input.

I doubt you'll get very far with anything though, Honda is a tough legal fight.

We may not get very far with Honda, but maybe we could at least get Honda to admit they have a problem and come up with a solution, even if we have to pay for it. I have added a pusher fan in front of my radiator to help air flow thru radiator, and it usually keeps it down to 3 bars.

 

[JACKAL]

When the HondaSXS group road the Alpine loop from Silverton, CO in 2020, I was one of about 6 or so that had overheating issues, and most had not seen that problem before. Slow speed, long semi-steep inclines, and around 10,000 + ft elevations seems to be the key ingredients causing the overheating issues.

We had 40+ P1K there in Colorado 2019 many did that loop, never heard any complaints about overheating all week we were there.

In fact only P1K I ever seen have issues either had radiator clogged with mud prevented air flow or they had air in the system causing hydrolock then overheating.

2 P1K in 25 k miles I never had issues.

 

[bumperm]

As @JACKAL says.

Also consider what can often happen if there's just a little bit of air in the coolant system. An air "bubble" can "park" at a hot spot. This can then allow localized temperatures at that spot to exceed the boiling temperature of the pressurized coolant. When that happens, resulting bubbles from boiling coolant increase overall system pressure, forcing coolant out and into the overflow bottle. If that bottle fills, further coolant is vented overboard. When things finally cool down, the system will suck in air to further exacerbate the problems. That's why it's so important to get all the air bled out of the system and make sure the overflow coolant reservoir is maintained at the correct level.

 

[Vikes79]

I know it’s doesn’t make sense for those in the south, but I’ve always installed a heater in every utv I’ve had as it serves two purposes, extra cooling capacity, and nice to remove the chill if necessary.

yes it’s miserable in the cab in the summer with the heater on, I remedy this by disconnecting the heater ducts.

Not an option for everyone, but it works.

 

[Bighat]

I don't about high elevations. But long pulls on hills will raise the coolant and oil temps on any vechile. But the machine should still have enough coolant and fan to control that heat. I would not think it would get to 4 bars. Does anyone here know how hot 4 bars is? I don't, it may tell you in a shop manual but mines still on order. As a I said before, I have know idea about really high mountain passes out west, I from the east. But I would have it check out before you damage it because I just can't believe as long as this machine has been out that if they had a major overheating problem it wouldn't be all over the internet. Honda has made several hundred thousand of these machines.

 

[DRZRon1]

is the fan running when it overheats?

fan running correct direction?

radiator super super clean?

coolant full?

has the dealer looked at, system bled, etc.?

 

[mlynch001]

Some observations:

First, HONDA has completely revised the Radiator, Fan , Fan shroud and the coolant flow on the 2022. I cannot say how much cooling capacity was added, but this was surely in response to the many reports of "boiling over".

Second, 2 bars on the so called "temp" gauge can indicate (if my memory serves correctly?) coolant temps from 165 degrees up to 248 degrees, in my opinion, way too "inaccurate" to be called a "gauge" at all. 3 bars is VERY Hot over 248 degrees and VERY close to the boiling point of 50/50 Coolant, which is about 267 degrees F @ 16 PSI (1.1bar) of system pressure.

Third, assuming that the stock 16-21 model radiator fan is barely adequate at sea level; the engine gets hotter at altitude, since it is working much harder. At high altitudes the airflow from the marginal stock fan is reduced, since the air density is much lower at say, 10000 foot altitudes. This is why a machine might be OK at lower altitudes and boil over at high altitudes.

Finally, there are many "fixes" out for the early models, various tunes, radiator caps, fans and thermostats. All seem to more or less reduce the issue. Only time will tell if the major changes in the 2022 model will be effective or not.

 

[Robobrainiac]

The highest I ever had with my 20 1000-5 was 3 bars in the dunes of Michigan while playing hard in the sand in sport mode. I sat and let it come back down to 2 bars and then hit it some more and did not have any issues. When I got home I ordered the cna override from the club store. It's still sitting in my closet :/

 

[mlynch001]

I have a DYNOJET PV3 which gives me the ability to actually see the coolant temperatures, not depending on that silly bar graph. My 2016 P1K-5 has only been at 250F (3 bars), a couple of times when climbing up a steep, rocky trail on a day with the air temp over 100 F. Typically, mine shows between 190 and 210 consistently and has never "boiled over". .

 

[mlynch001]

fan running correct direction?

Although I cannot confirm the entire story, I have talked to one owner on a FB forum who said that the fan on his P1k was "pushing" air out the front. Looking at the cooling fan, it might be possible to have the connector incorrectly pinned and reversing the motor OR to install the fan blade "backwards" making it into a pusher fan. I never heard if his problem was the former or latter situation. However, He was adamant that his fan was pushing air from the rear of the radiator and out the grill.

 

[Piper19p]

I would lean toward air bubbles or flow issues. After installing an ice crusher heater this past winter, I learned a lot about both. First, the Honda cooling system was extremely….. difficult to bleed the air out after having it open. It took 4 or so careful hot/cold cycles and using a combination of elevating and lowering the front end on steep inclines, pinching off certain coolant lines, along with momentarily reving the engine to finally push the coolant/air through. Second, there isn’t very good coolant flow to the front of the machine at lower rpm’s, it mostly circulates around the engine pre-thermostat circuit. The ice crusher heater worked ok if you kept your rpm’s up, but anything less it blew cold.. I ended up purchasing their electric water pump to get better flow to the heater core, which now works awesome even at idle. It makes me wonder if you could add the electric water pump to a stock system to gain more cooling efficiency even if your not in need of a heater.

 

[Jankyeye]

Not to get off topic but has anyone installed a water proof/resistant temp gauge/probe? I wish the current dash was capable of showing more data without having to scroll the little button.

 

[mlynch001]

I would lean toward air bubbles or flow issues.

I agree. Most of these issues can be traced to improper bleeding and air trapped in the system. It is difficult to bleed the system at best and many people have troubles right from the dealer, so I am betting that these dealers never bleed the systems. They look at the coolant tank, top it up and call it good. The symptoms of air in the system shows up as overheating and boiling over after you ride for a while. Also, if the temp sender is not covered by coolant, they will read normal temps (one or two bars on the gauge) and the fan will never run because the PCM thinks everything is just fine, all the while the radiator boils away.

 

[DRZRon1]

talon but similar, put a water temperature gauge in the coolant line, never see any more than 2 fans, in fact 2 fans are indicated before stat opens up, yes I put it in the radiator top hot line - just simpler for what I wanted, I couldn't wrap my mind around little fans and needed a number to look at - I do not think the gauge is waterproof - I siliconed the little holes in the back and cover it with a baggie when I wash it - other than that it has been great, been kinda wet at times, so has worked fine short of when I dropped it on the floor

there is minimal information/data from the original posts above to understand the problem and troubleshooting steps to date other than it overheats at altitude and a pusher fan was added (interesting pusher fan and puller fan) - any modifications, stock machine, troubleshooting to date, etc.

there are many many smart savvy members on here that either seen it, done it, or can help figure out the issue....just need additional data\info.

 

[mlynch001]

yes I put it in the radiator top hot line - just simpler for what I wanted,

I really like this idea. Can you tell me what size that top hose adapter is? I see several sizes online, but do not want to crack the system to measure the ID of the hose right now. I am going to do Oil pressure and possibly water temp on my pioneer. TIA!

 

[DRZRon1]

no clue if the P1000 is different or not - probably the same, can't find my darn notes of what it measured

I went with an aluminum 26mm inline fitting that the temp gauge thermocouple went into. I measured the hard coolant line with a caliper, was close to 1" and said 26mm is fine.

Clamped that top hose where it comes off the hard coolant line, siphoned some coolant out of radiator, pulled hose off of radiator, poured what was left in the hose into a container and then cut a 1" piece or so off the factory hose and slipped the fitting in - never shortened the hose but you could - tightened everything up, poured the coolant back in, removed clamp, wired up and done.

if you get the oil pressure figured out - please post - that is interesting as well.