Talon Honda Talon Shift Problem, Pioneer 1000 too.

[hondabob]

Pass this info along to other Talon and Pioneer 1000 owners.

How to prevent the Loud Bang. It may occur more often when the engine is cold. This can occur on the Pioneer 1000 too. See page # 33 in the Talon owners manual.

Make sure the sub trans is fully into gear before applying the throttle. The display must show your in gear with a R, H, or L.
If the dash “ – “ is on the display your not in gear.

If you apply throttle it will go into gear but with a loud bang and sub trans gear damage can occur. You can feel the shift lever is loaded forward with the shift cable holding it to the end of the shift notch when its not in gear.

For Reverse and High you can over shift a bit if necessary especially when the engine is cold. Taking your foot off the brake can help. If it rolls a couple of inches that will help it to go into gear too.

When I shift mine into Low range or reverse when cold sometimes I get the dash “ – “ on the display. If I roll it an inch or two it goes into gear. I can feel the shifter is loaded forward in the low range or reverse notch and not fully into gear. It can be the same in high range too.

I modified my low range shift plate so I can over shift a bit like I can in Reverse and High.

My Talon has done this a few times in 6,000 miles and my 2016 Pioneer 1000 has done it a couple of times in 19,000 miles. It occurs mostly when the engine is cold. I use low range to load it on my trailer. After driving for about 20 minutes it goes into low range ok.

Shifting into reverse can also have this issue especially when the engine is cold but you can over shift slightly in high and reverse and it will go into gear.

The shift cable is adjusted to center in the neutral position which had the narrow gate.

 

[HUCK]

Good write up Bob .

 

[THUNDERMAN]

I have often wondered if alot of these bangs and clangs and stripped gears are actually drivers in too big of a hurry. I have always taken time with shifts and have no problems. Operator error goes a long ways toward creating problems. Not saying always.

 

[hondabob]

I still have a low range shift problem when the engine is cold. The new shift cable over shift clearance didn't help. I'm going to try my Honda Motocross bike HP4M oil with Moly in my Sub Trans next. After about 20 minutes of driving it shifts ok. The Moly additive may help on cold start shifting. This oil should be ok in the sub trans since there isn't a wet clutch.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

I still have a low range shift problem when the engine is cold. The new shift cable over shift clearance didn't help. I'm going to try my Honda Motocross bike HP4M oil with Moly in my Sub Trans next. After about 20 minutes of driving it shifts ok. The Moly additive may help on cold start shifting. This oil should be ok in the sub trans since there isn't a wet clutch.


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Maybe look for a 0W-30 oil. An 0W will flow better when cold.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Maybe look for a 0W-30 oil. An 0W will flow better when cold.

the Honda manual even recommends the 0-30

 

[DAJO]

I am using Amsoil in mine, does not having a shifting problem.

 

[jamesh]

I have the CA shift gate, so I can very positively slam the gear down into low.

I had an instance on the trail on a three point turn...Shifted from reverse to low, gave it a little gas and got a raucous clattering from the tranny. I looked up at the dash and saw the "-". I tried several times to go to other gears, letting the machine roll back and forth the little distance it was able, and come back to low and it kept giving me the "-".

My heart dropped as I thought about the complaints of low gear busting out and all the rounded gear dog pictures that have been posted on facebook (really only be a couple people, but you see it over and over).

Was thinking, "damn, now I need to reinstall the stock shift gate, put the stock wheels/tires back on and hope they don't figure out that I had aftermarket equipment and use that to deny me warranty."

So, I solemnly put it in high and carried on down the trail with my group. After figuring the tranny had some time to sync back up, I tried Low again. It worked! I was back in and out of low as I had been throughout the day without any more problems. I was soooo relieved! The clattering I got was not REALLY bad, but this was only my second ride on this new machine and my heart almost broke into pieces when I heard it. Luckily it seems the tranny is at least a tiny bit forgiving of a small mistake.

QUESTION: it seems like the shift lever adjustment is based on the neutral position as denoted by the shift gate. Is this the case, or is there another way to know where the neutral positions is? Just curious as I'll need to re-install the factory shift gate to adjust the cable if that is the case. It's easy to see where neutral is on the CA shift gate, but it would be more difficult to adjust the tolerance based off it compared to the stock shift gate.

FWIW, I really like the CA shift gate. Yes, you could knock it out of gear more easily than you could with the stock shift gate. From my ride with it last time on a very bumpy trail, any worries I had about that are gone. You'd have to reach down there and knock it loose. It does make me confident that I am solidly shifted into gear because you can slam it down right into the slots rather than stop in space and then pull it into the holding position. It also makes going from reveres and low, or reverse and high, very easy. One single throw. Very nice.

 

[hondabob]

The CA shift gate is easy to knock it out of gear and shifting back and force you must be back to idle before shifting. When your in Low the lever should move back and forth slightly, same with High and Reverse. When your in Neutral it should be half way between Reverse and High. You can lay the stock shift plate next to the CA shift plate to check for neutral. I'm at 7,446 miles now and have a problem shifting into Low some times before driving it for about 15 minutes. I'm using 0w40 Maxima full synethic motorcycle oil now. It seems to fix it most of the time. If it doesn't want to go into low I move it forward in high about 2 inches then it goes into low. With the stock shift plate when its fully into gear you can wiggle the shift lever back and forth in the shift gate a bit. If its loaded forward its not in gear and you will have the "---" on the display. When you shift into park the shift cable is pulling the sub trans shift lever. When you pull back to shift into gear the cable is pushing the sub trans shift lever and its not as positive. I modified my shift plate so I can over shift into low a bit.

 

[Dirtstiffs-1000]

Pioneer not Talon -
When doing my first oil change, I also decided to do the subtrans. I slightly overfilled my Pioneer subtrans and it wouldn't shift into low. No prior issues. I drained a bit of fluid to put oil back in range and shifts just fine.
Lesson learned.

 

[hondabob]

The 0w40 Maxima full synethic motorcycle oil seems to have fixed my cold start shifting issue. It goes into low most of the time now. Cold start temp has been mostly in the 40's. Grinding my shift gate back for more over shift going into low range may have helped too. I always make sure my shift lever wiggles forward and aft in the shift gate and during a cold start I check the display too. I make sure my idle speed is below 1,800 rpm and I shift quickly into gear. Its easy to get happy when my first real failure is my left front dif seal started leaking at 7,400 miles. Its slight but it makes a mess with a wet spot at the bottom of the dif seal. My dealer has the seal on order. I just check the front dif oil level after every ride and add a couple ounces if necessary.

 

[DAJO]

That looks familiar. Wonder why it seems to always be the left side seal. Also will it be reoccuring.

 

[jamesh]

Last ride I had a few more I stances of it not wanting to shift to low and I got a bang start once as well. I had changed my sub trans oil during first service and may have over filled it ever so slightly. I think I will change the sub trans oil to something lighter like Hondabob as well as check the shifter adjustment. It does appear to be properly adjusted with even play between neutral and adjacent gears, but I'm going to check it very closely anyways.

 

[PaulF]

I had the "Bang" problem last fall a couple times when the weather cooled down. Re-adjusted the shift cable and still had a hard time getting into Low with a cold car. Changing to 0W20 helped but did not fix the problem.

I decided to try and fabricate a modified shift gate that moves P,R,N,D forward 3mm and add 4mm to the back of Low for a total of 7mm extra throw. Winter stepped in so I didn't get a chance to test it except in the driveway.

Fast forward to the last 5 days at Sand Hollow doing a lot of rock crawling. Used Low more than High on this trip. Shifts perfectly and firmly into Low even with a cold engine at 40 degrees. No rocking or any other type of magic, just shifts right in every time and stays there.

My opinion is that the shift gate only works properly when new and as soon as things start to loosen up and some slack develops, there isn't enough throw to overcome the wear.

I think Honda should reconsider/redesign the shifter gate in my opinion.

 

[hondabob]

I like what you have done with the shift gate. I added about 3 mm of over shift by grinding out the shift gate.The shift cable is a very high quality cable so the extra 7mm of over shift should be a very good fix and easy to make. You should sell them until someone else does. If Honda does a recall with a new shift gate fix they need to give you some accessories of your choice or even a turbo. I'm going to grind my shift gate a bit more now.

 

[PaulF]

I like what you have done with the shift gate. I added about 3 mm of over shift by grinding out the shift gate.The shift cable is a very high quality cable so the extra 7mm of over shift should be a very good fix and easy to make. You should sell them until someone else does. If Honda does a recall with a new shift gate fix they need to give you some accessories of your choice or even a turbo. I'm going to grind my shift gate a bit more now.

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Check your PM from me on 12/22.

 

[hondabob]

Paul I'm terrible about checking my PM. I just sent a reply. Its really annoying to get the shift bang. My buddy has about 700 miles on his with the problem. Its easy to avoid but we shouldn't have to do anything but shift it into the shift gate and be fully into gear.

 

[jamesh]

I'm sure I know the answer....but :

It seems the problem is only going into low. I wonder if there is enough tolerance that the shifter can be adjusted slightly forward of the factory recommendation to create more "throw" going into low, yet still be able to get into high, reverse and park without any issues?

 

[Jefferson87]

I'm sure I know the answer....but :

It seems the problem is only going into low. I wonder if there is enough tolerance that the shifter can be adjusted slightly forward of the factory recommendation to create more "throw" going into low, yet still be able to get into high, reverse and park without any issues?

Then you are risking the same issue in reverse.

What's funny/sad/dumb is that this could be solved by a $10 piece of plastic. The low gate needs to be further back and smaller imo.

Mine is at the dealer, was supposed to be ready last Saturday, then yesterday, so hopefully today is the day. I'm planning on making a new gate out of some 3/8" uhmw or similar. Basically just copy the stock one, but have low 1/4" further back and smaller. I'm not going to have my machine at the dealer for a month again because of this stupid design flaw.

If the shifter is in the low gate, it should be in low, period.

 

[hondabob]

Paulf has already made a much better shift gate that fixes the problem some of us are having.