P1000 Knocking in engine?

[Cowman]

I have a 2016 Pioneer 1000 - purchased new in Dec. 2017 - with about 13,000 miles on it. It has been well maintained and used primarily on my cattle farm - no mud hogging or driving through water and has not been abused - just mostly doodling around looking at cattle and working on fencing, etc. A few months ago it developed a sound that kind of sounds like a sort of high pitched "knock" that is evident between about 2500 - 3000 rpm under acceleration. Not evident at rpms below or above that engine speed or when not under load. After the engine gets thoroughly warmed up, the sound pretty much disappears.

I don't have a stethoscope so I used an extra long screwdriver and placed the tip against the engine block and the handle against my ear while revving the engine up and down - a trick I learned from my father-in-law, a long time mechanic but now deceased. No internal "knocking" sound was evident - just normal mechanical sounds. Could this be an exhaust sound that I am hearing...anyone else have this experience. I don't want to blow the engine if it is something mechanical to be concerned about.

Any thoughts appreciated.

James

 

[Admin]

 

[Jerryg]

The only way I know how to eliminate possible causes is to isolate the engine.

Is it possible something fell into a combustion chamber?

Or maybe a possible carbon build up in a cylinder.

 

[Scrappapotamus]

I had a similar experience with a truck that we purchased for an employee. Engine started knocking at 36K miles. we took it to the dealer and was informed that engine had a bad rod and new engine was required. The truck was barely out of warranty by miles, yet had 2 years of time remaining. Dealer said sorry about your luck and after a call to GM, was told same thing. I initially told our employee to drive it until it blew, and we will replace it. I thought better and decided to send it to another dealer and didn't tell them we had it elsewhere before bringing it to them. Shortly later, they rang saying it had a cracked exhaust manifold and would be covered under the emission's portion of the warranty. You may very well have a cracked manifold or blown manifold gasket. Afterwards, I returned to the original dealer who also sold us the vehicle and met with the owner and service manger. I asked the service manger to explain the reasoning for a new engine and what had caused the failure. After we absorbed their reasoning, I handed the repair receipt where I had it repaired elsewhere to the owner. Quite comical but sadly they insisted the repair was a misdiagnosis and the engine was doomed. I thanked them for their time and told the owner we would be conducting business elsewhere going forward.

 

[Jerryg]

If maintained, I would find it hard to believe a connecting rod failed. In matter of fact, over the course of 45 years, I have never seen a Honda connecting rod fail prematurely without some sort of lack of lubrication. If a connecting rod bolt is going to back out, it would have done it along time ago.

I have seen water ingestion crack pistons and I have seen all sorts of things in combustion chambers.

 

[Scrappapotamus]

Ingesting water will definitely bend a rod, but this would definitely nuke the motor

 

[Jerryg]

Ingesting water will definitely bend a rod, but this would definitely nuke the motor

Having a good mechanic is a blessing.

I don't trust any dealerships. Their overhead is high so they need to beat up every customer just to stay afloat.

 

[Cowman]

I have considerd that it may be an exhaust noise. A couple of other items....once warmed up the engine runs just slightly rough when given just enough throttle to maintain speed, but runs well under acceleration or at idle. This is with the engine thoroughly warmed up, but no problem when engine cold. Sometimes it pops or backfires through the exhaust when first cranked. I am inclined to think the noise is in the exhaust, but want to be sure if possible.

Would a mechanical "knock" go away once the engine becomes heated to normal operating temps? As I stated, using the long screw drive against the engine block as a "stethoscope" produced no unusual internal engine sounds. Also as stated earlier, the sound is confined to rpms between 2500 - 3000 with the loudest being at about 2900 rpm. Above and below there is no "knock" sound regardless of acceleration, load, or engine temp. No unusual sound on start up.

As far as I know, the engine has never had an opportunity to ingest water. I live on sandy hilly land with pastures and woodlands, and most of my driving is at slow to moderate speeds....I try to avoid driving through water. Oil and filer changes conducted in a timely manner since owning it. It has been, except for initial electrical issues due to faulty wiring harness, a good faithful vehicle, and I am hoping there is nothing seriously wrong with it.

Thanks for the input so far....

 

[Scrappapotamus]

Having a good mechanic is a blessing.

I don't trust any dealerships. Their overhead is high so they need to beat up every customer just to stay afloat.

True, but if you're running a fleet of 80+ vehicles that were needed for efficient operation of business, it winds up being not too bad of a situation, plus anything they f*** up gets fixed again for no additional cost. This doesn't happen at a low budget repair shop and your vehicle isn't down for days or longer. We negotiated a reduced labor rate and purchasing parts at discounted rate and pre determined menu repairs like brakes, clutches, water pumps and so on. We were using smaller repair shops previously and that was a nightmare, especially paying one price for one vehicle and more and sometimes less on others. Who's got time to sort through all of that and what does it cost to have someone doing this every time something needs servicing and repairs? Sometimes your $$ ahead focussing on what fuels the engine and not being so frugal that it costs you more in the long run regarding loss of production and paying someone to figure out if someone is making a little more on you. We had a shop replace a clutch in the same vehicle 5 or 6 times in a short period of time saying the operator of the vehicle needed an automatic transmission. After inspecting the vehicle, I noticed that the clutch pedal arm was cracked which caused the vehicle's clutch to not properly disengage which smoked the new clutches very quickly. I'm embarrassed to say we payed for all of these repairs, and when I approached the shop after my guy turned into a puss, they gave me the sorry about your luck routine. I, unlike you am Leary of small shops. You can get this kind of service anywhere, but if a dealer was to do this, you go over their head to the manufacturer. I'm sure The Darkness Lad will appear shortly and good luck. BTW, Not trying to hijack your thread

 

[Scrappapotamus]

Most fuels we consume have a small amount of water, especially diesel fuel, That's why we sell injectors. One of my Ford Powerstrokes had 3 set of injectors in 185K miles. The backfire during starting could either be water in the fuel of something electrical in the ignition system of your engine. Maybe a bad ground? That's where I would start

 

[CID]

Cam chain tensioner?

 

[Mopower58]

I have a 2016 Pioneer 1000 - purchased new in Dec. 2017 - with about 13,000 miles on it. It has been well maintained and used primarily on my cattle farm - no mud hogging or driving through water and has not been abused - just mostly doodling around looking at cattle and working on fencing, etc. A few months ago it developed a sound that kind of sounds like a sort of high pitched "knock" that is evident between about 2500 - 3000 rpm under acceleration. Not evident at rpms below or above that engine speed or when not under load. After the engine gets thoroughly warmed up, the sound pretty much disappears.

I don't have a stethoscope so I used an extra long screwdriver and placed the tip against the engine block and the handle against my ear while revving the engine up and down - a trick I learned from my father-in-law, a long time mechanic but now deceased. No internal "knocking" sound was evident - just normal mechanical sounds. Could this be an exhaust sound that I am hearing...anyone else have this experience. I don't want to blow the engine if it is something mechanical to be concerned about.

Any thoughts appreciated.

James

I can’t remember who, but someone on here experienced muffler cracking problems a couple of times. To verify an exhaust leak, you can use a piece of vacuum hose in the same manor as the screw driver for a knock. If it is an exhaust leak when you get close with the vacuum tubing end it will become evident. Also if its cracked you will either see excessive rust or black soot around the area.

 

[WagginTail]

I can’t remember who, but someone on here experienced muffler cracking problems a couple of times.

Mine cracked/ broke apart last year. Right at the flange where it bolts onto the engine. I seem to remember someone else having that issue also. Mine was the rear one. Couldn't see it broken but I could feel the exhaust blowing out when I put my hand around it (while cool of course). Exhaust noise was defintely louder after it broke.
Last pic is the repair

 

[Jerryg]

True, but if you're running a fleet of 80+ vehicles that were needed for efficient operation of business, it winds up being not too bad of a situation, plus anything they f*** up gets fixed again for no additional cost. This doesn't happen at a low budget repair shop and your vehicle isn't down for days or longer. We negotiated a reduced labor rate and purchasing parts at discounted rate and pre determined menu repairs like brakes, clutches, water pumps and so on. We were using smaller repair shops previously and that was a nightmare, especially paying one price for one vehicle and more and sometimes less on others. Who's got time to sort through all of that and what does it cost to have someone doing this every time something needs servicing and repairs? Sometimes your $$ ahead focussing on what fuels the engine and not being so frugal that it costs you more in the long run regarding loss of production and paying someone to figure out if someone is making a little more on you. We had a shop replace a clutch in the same vehicle 5 or 6 times in a short period of time saying the operator of the vehicle needed an automatic transmission. After inspecting the vehicle, I noticed that the clutch pedal arm was cracked which caused the vehicle's clutch to not properly disengage which smoked the new clutches very quickly. I'm embarrassed to say we payed for all of these repairs, and when I approached the shop after my guy turned into a puss, they gave me the sorry about your luck routine. I, unlike you am Leary of small shops. You can get this kind of service anywhere, but if a dealer was to do this, you go over their head to the manufacturer. I'm sure The Darkness Lad will appear shortly and good luck. BTW, Not trying to hijack your thread

I understand, that is a completely different situation form most here though. With a fleet of vehicles that big, you should have your own mechanics and only use dealerships only when a warranty situation arises.

Dealerships have large overhead that needs to be covered, that is an unfortunate fact of business. It doesn't insure you are going to get a good mechanic. In my experience, the only good shops are the one where the owner is in the shop turning the wrenches.

 

[RacinJasonWV]

I’m a rookie around here and know very little in the sxs world. But my first thought of your symptoms was exhaust leak (which others have mentioned) or engine mount issue. From your description it doesn’t sound like an internal engine concern.

Linking a video of the noise would help folks with their ideas/recommendations.

You mentioned it running slightly rough at light throttle. At 13k have you ever changed the plugs or adjusted the valves? Just a thought. 🤷‍♂️

 

[DRZRon1]

I have a 2016 Pioneer 1000 - purchased new in Dec. 2017 - with about 13,000 miles on it. It has been well maintained and used primarily on my cattle farm - no mud hogging or driving through water and has not been abused - just mostly doodling around looking at cattle and working on fencing, etc. A few months ago it developed a sound that kind of sounds like a sort of high pitched "knock" that is evident between about 2500 - 3000 rpm under acceleration. Not evident at rpms below or above that engine speed or when not under load. After the engine gets thoroughly warmed up, the sound pretty much disappears.

I don't have a stethoscope so I used an extra long screwdriver and placed the tip against the engine block and the handle against my ear while revving the engine up and down - a trick I learned from my father-in-law, a long time mechanic but now deceased. No internal "knocking" sound was evident - just normal mechanical sounds. Could this be an exhaust sound that I am hearing...anyone else have this experience. I don't want to blow the engine if it is something mechanical to be concerned about.

Any thoughts appreciated.

James

Hi - it’s a Honda PowerPlant - u made a great decision.

Sounds like exhaust - if anything valve clearances can be checked

These do shake rattle and roll

As long as their is oil in it, filtration is good and never sucked dust past the filter - not much you can do other than to ride it

Let us know if you find anything

 

[Remington]

@Cowman
How anybody can tell u what your “Knocking” sound is without hearing it is beyond me.
What u need to do is load up a vidgea on YouTube of the sound copy and paste it here for us to hear. Otherwise we are just throwing darts at it and confusing u like FJB

 

[GolfCart]

Does this knock occur with the vehicle in neutral?

 

[Scrappapotamus]

I understand, that is a completely different situation form most here though. With a fleet of vehicles that big, you should have your own mechanics and only use dealerships only when a warranty situation arises.

Dealerships have large overhead that needs to be covered, that is an unfortunate fact of business. It doesn't insure you are going to get a good mechanic. In my experience, the only good shops are the one where the owner is in the shop turning the wrenches.

Businesses can prove difficult keeping all aspects running efficiently. I inherited a shop with mechanics and came to realize this was a black hole that needed to be dismantled. Someone must oversee the day to day operations, work quality, turn around and cost effectiveness. We tried several differing solutions before landing at the dealerships. My family also owns a successful automobile dealer and I knew the innerworkings of a dealership, their approximate margins and how the manufacturer's support and govern customer satisfaction. Operating a repair business within a business equates to another set of books and overhead, and something not relating to your daily scope of business operations. I understand your thinking and appreciate your input

 

[Cowman]

Thanks all for the comments. I have replaced the plugs, but have not adjusted the valves....that probably needs doing and could perhaps account for the roughness under low load on the engine - but the "knock" does not sound like valve noise to me. I do have some mechanical skills - taught school for over forty years and often helped my father-in-law in his auto repair shop during summers when school was not in session. The "knock" is in sync with engine speed, so it is either mechanical or exhaust I'm thinking. Does it when engine is cold and doesn't matter if in neutral or in gear going down road. It does it when I apply throttle between 2500 - 3000 rpm with worst about 2800 rpm. Above or below that rpm range, or with no load on engine there is no "knock", and it goes away once the engine reaches full operating temp. I'm using the word "knock" for lack of a better description. Any thoughts as to the possibility this may be due to carbon buildup? - I would think that would be continuous regardless of rpm. I do tend to run at low rpms most of the time when just puttering around the pasture checking cattle, etc.

I will try to find time to do a video recording of the sound and post here. In the meanime, I am going to pull the skid plate and take a close look at the exhaust system.

 

[Cowman]

Ok, with luck I can upload this video file taken this morning. The sound is loudest when not moving but "goosing" the throttle. Right click on link and open in new tab to view.