P1000 Lessons Learned

[Lilcorky]

I purchased a 2019 1000-5 with 1200 miles from a friend. The sxs sat for ~1 yr with a full tank of fuel. When I went to look at it the battery was dead. The seller jump-started it and we took it for a drive. It wouldn't idle but otherwise seemed to run fine. I attributed it to fuel. I put SeaFoam in the tank and ran it through. Filled up again and dropped in Techron. It seemed like the idle was clearing up but then it started missing badly, strong smell of fuel, and excessive smoke from the tailpipe.

Rear plug was fouled, front was wet. Put in new plugs but it didn't help, so I took it to the Honda dealer. They found the battery and ECU to be bad and they think the ECU was damaged from jump-starting it. Honda wants to evaluate the ECM so they are providing a new one free of charge.

My research shows that jump-starting these units can fry the ECM. Further, low batteries, exasperated by running several accessories on the primary battery system, apparently can prematurely wear the clutch plates.

I hope to pick up the sxs this week and I will work on installing a dual battery system to drive the plow winch and various other accessories so the primary battery can be limited to sxs operation. The sxs will be on a battery maintainer when not in use.

This may be common knowledge for most but maybe it will help some other unsuspecting owner.

 

[Admin]

 

[Lilcorky]

I previously posted a pic but here it is again. I only have one, so far.

 

[bumperm]

Yes, I think it's pretty much common knowledge but does bear repeating now and then. Note that some battery manufacturers, like Mighty Max, (IIRC), say not to leave their batteries on trickle charge or battery maintainers. Tru battery isolators are recommended and most here I think use them. You can get them as a kit that includes a dual voltmeter, so you can see both battery voltages displayed. A handy mod, that I did, allows you to check the battery voltages with ignition key off (so you are not artificially loading that battery down and can then properly compare the two batteries side-by-side. This involves installing a momentary, normally open push button switch so that when the button is pushed, it applies a ground to the dual meter. Enjoy your Pioneer and welcome to the group.

 

[Lilcorky]

Thanks! Great tip, I may have to put in the switch as well.

 

[DRZRon1]

I need to learn more - the one advantage of a dual battery setup is to be able to jump to the main to get going WHEN the main dies at the most inopportune time - frying the ECM?, I’d be the first guy to pull the jump box out to get going if I was stuck

I know these machines are voltage sensitive - not sure I’ve heard of battery going south frying clutches

 

[Remington]

I know these machines are voltage sensitive - not sure I’ve heard of battery going south frying clutches

Me neither.
Ive seen it the other way around

 

[Scoop]

I need to learn more - the whole basis of a dual battery setup is to be able to jump to the main to get going - frying the ECM, I’d be the first guy to pull the jump box out to get going if I was stuck

The whole basis of a dual battery setup (and isolator) is to keep the main/starting battery from ever being depleted to begin with.

 

[Neohio]

It doesn't surprise me the main battery was dead after sitting 1 year. 2nd battery, isolator etc. I don't think it would make a difference if left alone that long.

 

[bumperm]

It doesn't surprise me the main battery was dead after sitting 1 year. 2nd battery, isolator etc. I don't think it would make a difference if left alone that long.

Lead acid batteries in storage, and this assumes at something akin to room temperature and with no load, should be charged at least twice a year as the self-discharge rate is something like 5% or so IIRC. In hotter temperatures more often that self-discharge rate goes up. Colder temps will result in less "self-discharge" but as a battery's state of charge decreases, the temperature that the electrolyte will freeze increases towards 32 F. Freezing does bad things, cracking the case and making a mess.

So, assuming a battery is left sitting there, when damage occurs will depend on it's initial charge state, it's age of course, and if there's parasitic load. On our SXS with two batteries, the chassis or main battery is going to have some parasitic loading while the aux battery, assuming it's isolated with a Tru or in the way it's wired, would not have any loading at all, so has an advantage. How these batteries will fare during extended storage will be determined by environment and how long they are left sitting there. With a terminal removed from the main battery, you might get away with 3 to 6 months (guessing), but you are far better off leaving the main battery connected and charging the batteries every month or so. Most batteries will also be happy left on a suitable low current battery maintainer. If there's no utility service available, consider a solar panel with suitable battery charger.

 

[bumperm]

I need to learn more - the one advantage of a dual battery setup is to be able to jump to the main to get going WHEN the main dies at the most inopportune time - frying the ECM?, I’d be the first guy to pull the jump box out to get going if I was stuck

I know these machines are voltage sensitive - not sure I’ve heard of battery going south frying clutches

That's not exactly my take. A lot of the reason folks add a second battery is to run heavy demand things like a winch (that's the BIG one and can draw over 200 amps from that fairly small main battery. If you do a rescue, it's nice to have your main battery in good shape for the trip home. Thus, a second battery is first popular to run the winch and other stuff you may need when you don't or can't be running the engine to get the alternator to help out (providing a measly 50 amps max with the engine turning high revs). After the rescue, it's nice to have the main battery all ready for the rest of the trip. Other folk want to blast music to terrify the wild critters, or impress them, while parked, so the Aux battery can do that too.

 

[someguy1313]

jumped mine and several others many times from my GMC truck. but, the truck is NOT running. Passive power only. maybe that's important

 

[bumperm]

jumped mine and several others many times from my GMC truck. but, the truck is NOT running. Passive power only. maybe that's important

Maybe not important, but having the battery, being used to provide power for jumpstarting, being charged while performing the jump start, raises the voltage typically by a couple of volts. That, in turn, provides a higher charge rate and more available energy to get the system you're jumping running. It's often a good idea to wait a few minutes with batteries jumped, before trying to get the jumped vehicle running.

Of course, these relatively new lithium-ion portable jump starters can make things easier still. The lithium batteries have very low internal resistance, so can pump out high current (albeit for short periods), but that's usually all you need to get 'er running. If you aren't running a winch, and so have no real need for an aux. battery, the lithium-ion jump starter is a light weight and quite workable choice for an occasional jump start.

 

[someguy1313]

Maybe not important, but having the battery, being used to provide power for jumpstarting, being charged while performing the jump start, raises the voltage typically by a couple of volts. That, in turn, provides a higher charge rate and more available energy to get the system you're jumping running. It's often a good idea to wait a few minutes with batteries jumped, before trying to get the jumped vehicle running.

Of course, these relatively new lithium-ion portable jump starters can make things easier still. The lithium batteries have very low internal resistance, so can pump out high current (albeit for short periods), but that's usually all you need to get 'er running. If you aren't running a winch, and so have no real need for an aux. battery, the lithium-ion jump starter is a light weight and quite workable choice for an occasional jump start.

agree. this is not my area of expertise. I was told once by someone smarter than me that there's plenty of juice in the truck batt, and that running the truck (big alternator) can over charge the more delicate electronics in the side by side. These hondas are seemingly voltage sensitive. And i have two friends who cooked their ECM by jumpstarting off running trucks. possibly just a coincidence. And Love the lithium portables jumpers. work really well

 

[bumperm]

agree. this is not my area of expertise. I was told once by someone smarter than me that there's plenty of juice in the truck batt, and that running the truck (big alternator) can over charge the more delicate electronics in the side by side. These hondas are seemingly voltage sensitive. And i have two friends who cooked their ECM by jumpstarting off running trucks. possibly just a coincidence. And Love the lithium portables jumpers. work really well

I'd say it's coincidence for sure*. Consider that even on a SxS, when running, the system voltage will be around 14.5 or so volts max. That's no more than 2 volts more than a normal charged battery at rest. When you first connect the running truck battery, there'll probably be a little arc at connection, but no big deal, the battery being charged will immediately put some degree of loading on the running vehicle battery. If it's like most vehicles with a lead acid battery, the battery's internal resistance is relatively high (compared to the Lithium batteries) and this tends to damp any voltage surges. In any case, there won't be a huge voltage spike to cause damage in either case, nor would the peak voltage be significantly outside the range of what is normal for the vehicles.

*Any misfunction of computer stuff is more likely due to the very low voltage of the battery on the discharged vehicle. The equipment is designed to normally function or reset after a power disconnect and then reconnect. Operating on low voltage I'd assuming is not the same and may scramble the logic. Removing power completely and then reconnecting things should sort it out I'd think.

 

[Lilcorky]

I wanted to check in with closure to this thread. Got the SxS back. ECM, Battery, Oil, Filters all changed. Compression check and Leak-down check performed. The dealer back-flushed the injectors and added some Yamalube Ring-Free to remove carbon deposits. It runs and idles good.

I noticed both MT & AT lights were on. Searched this forum and found that the clutch relearn procedure was needed. Performed that and all is good.

This is my first SxS and I have learned a lot from this forum. I am in the process of ordering all I need for the dual battery conversion along with LED lights for the front and back. The information in this forum has given me the confidence to press forward with these installs.

Thank you to Hondasxs and all forum members for the invaluable information. I will continue to post when I think I can add to this incredible knowledge base. I attached some additional pics.