P1000 Low gear grinding

[BeOffGrid]

Hi all. I'm new to the site. Pasting my post on the intro forum here for quick reference:
"I bought a 2019 Pioneer 1000-5 Deluxe in November and installed tracks shortly after along with all the other accessories in the photo, all from Honda. I've also recently installed Harbor Freight LED lights on the roof. My experience thus far has been bittersweet. I've had difficulty shifting to low gear since I bought it and it's also overheated."

I have about 30 hours on the machine, almost exclusively with tracks. The machine overheated on my 3rd ride while running in low gear and high RPM. The coolant system consumed all of the coolant from the reservoir and even after refilling it would continue to overheat. I took it to the shop and they updated the 'fan firmware'. I've read that this is more than just a fan update. I then completely drained the coolant, replaced the thermostat just in case since the system was drained anyway and it's a $30 part, refilled with Honda coolant and haven't had any overheating since. I'm really annoyed that the firmware update wasn't mandated prior to me driving it off the dealer lot.

It's been difficult to shift into low gear since I brought the machine home. I figured it'd break in over time but it actually became more difficult and started to make a grinding sound before finally engaging and remaining in low gear. At some point a few weeks ago, I experienced a strong gear shifting clunk while in low gear. I don't recall if that was the last time I could actually engage low gear but quite likely. Now, I can't access low gear at all. I just hear grinding. High gear and reverse operate fine.

I operate the machine between 6000-7000 ft elevation and haven't abused it and am pretty frustrated that I've had two major problems in the short time I've owned it, especially with all the financial and personal time invested in the accessories. It's in the shop now and I'm waiting on a diagnosis. While it's there, it's also be inspected for the sub-transmission recall with regard to what I think is a potentially missing spacer.

Does anyone know of issues shifting into low gear? I checked the shifting cable adjustment as per the service manual and it seemed fine. I also replaced the engine oil, engine oil filter and DCT oil filter as required in the maintenance schedule. The engine oil and sub-transmission oil levels are fine.

 

[Admin]

 

[WOT-Outdoors]

I haven’t checked in on mine yet but it also likes to grind into gear when I put it in low range. I was planning on adjusting the cables. I had to adjust the 4wd cables when I first purchased my rig a year ago

 

[ehart814]

Mine will sometimes hesitate when I shift to low. When I move the shifter it will display "-" instead of "L". When it happens I shift back to N or P and then back to L and it usually will go it. I think I need to adjust the shifter cable

 

[BeOffGrid]

Thanks guys. The display always states "L" when I shift into low gear and the gears grind regardless if I'm in 2WD, 4WD, or 4WD diff lock.

 

[Dirtstiffs-1000]

This may seem odd but -
Never an issue until I overfilled the subtransmission oil and it immediately started grinding and was hard to shift into low. No issues before oil change.
I Drained oil and refilled correctly and no more issues in low.
It wasn't much over full.
Just sayin, that was the case with mine.
Worth a check anyway.

 

[Hondoman]

This may seem odd but -
Never an issue until I overfilled the subtransmission oil and it immediately started grinding and was hard to shift into low. No issues before oil change.
I Drained oil and refilled correctly and no more issues in low.
It wasn't much over full.
Just sayin, that was the case with mine.
Worth a check anyway.

Funny you say that, mine has started having problems going into low range. Checked the sub trans fluid yesterday and found it to be overfilled as well, maybe 1/3 quart too much (dealer serviced). Drained it to a level between the lines on the dipstick and spent a few hours adjusting the shifter cable behind the battery box. It's better but still bangs when initially pulling forward, maybe 1 out of ten times.

How long after draining the excess fluid did yours return to normal operation?

 

[Dirtstiffs-1000]

Immediately

 

[BeOffGrid]

Thanks all. I did read that the transmission is dependent upon oil for proper shifting. I didn't change the sub-transmission oil but did confirm the level is between the high and low marks and confirmed the same for the engine oil.

 

[Ragnar406]

I would check the shifter cable and make sure you note the issue to your dealer (warranty purposes). I had my low gear go out and it was replaced under extended warranty. know that every time it is grinding you are wearing on the dog ears and eventually they won’t lockup...

 

[RyanG]

Can someone specify when checkin the sub transmission oil and engine oils while engine is hot or when its cold. ?

 

[BeOffGrid]

Can someone specify when checkin the sub transmission oil and engine oils while engine is hot or when its cold. ?

The manual states you should idle the engine for 3-5 minutes, then wait 2-3 minutes to check the levels without screwing in the dipstick.

 

[BeOffGrid]

Update: The work is being covered under warranty. When I went to the dealer today to pick it up, the salesman drove it from the back of their lot ad noticed the shifting and gear engagement still didn't seem right like it was intermittently shifting well and poorly and occasionally showing the '-' instead of L/H/R, etc. The repair tech drove it around and shifted it a lot and I could hear the same gear grinding that occurred before I took it to the shop. I'm not sure what they replaced since I didn't take it off the lot and get the paperwork, but I was told the gear dogs were ground away from partially engaging until they could no longer engage.

It's been in the shop for a month now and probably another two weeks at this point since they're going to tear down the sub-transmission again.

Does anyone have experience talking to Honda corporate customer service in instances like this? I'm really pissed how expensive this machine was, that I outfitted it with accessories that I can't transfer to another brand other than the tracks, that the transmission is being torn apart twice and its overheated. I'm totally disapointed for a Honda and if I could I'd return it.

 

[HondaTech]

Update: The work is being covered under warranty. When I went to the dealer today to pick it up, the salesman drove it from the back of their lot ad noticed the shifting and gear engagement still didn't seem right like it was intermittently shifting well and poorly and occasionally showing the '-' instead of L/H/R, etc. The repair tech drove it around and shifted it a lot and I could hear the same gear grinding that occurred before I took it to the shop. I'm not sure what they replaced since I didn't take it off the lot and get the paperwork, but I was told the gear dogs were ground away from partially engaging until they could no longer engage.

It's been in the shop for a month now and probably another two weeks at this point since they're going to tear down the sub-transmission again.

Does anyone have experience talking to Honda corporate customer service in instances like this? I'm really pissed how expensive this machine was, that I outfitted it with accessories that I can't transfer to another brand other than the tracks, that the transmission is being torn apart twice and its overheated. I'm totally disapointed for a Honda and if I could I'd return it.

Not to point fingers, but your issues seems to stem from a dealer who doesn't know what their doing or doesn't care about the unit being right before the sale.

 

[BeOffGrid]

Not to point fingers, but your issues seems to stem from a dealer who doesn't know what their doing or doesn't care about the unit being right before the sale.

Valid point and I've seen others fault dealers on here before but I don't think its accurate to blame them. This has been an intermittent issue and is likely why the repair tech noted it was ready for pickup after he test rode it post-repair. This dealership has a lot of great customer reviews.

I'm an engineer and appreciate the fact that these are complex machines. I wonder how well Honda trains the dealer repair technicians and if Honda's engineering team, or whatever corporate team, is available for consult on major issues like this. Ultimately, it's Honda's responsibility to ensure the repair techs are trained well enough for these repairs.

So, I'm inclined to put more energy toward engaging Honda and not the dealer. I don't have much faith in them since they didn't require the "fan" firmware upgrade before I drove the unit off the lot and that seems to have resolved my overheating issue, although flushing and refilling the coolant may have also helped.

I'm going to call Honda at some point this week.

 

[BeOffGrid]

Also, I understand that these are partially assembled at the dealer. However, Honda is responsible for testing the basic operation at the factory before the machines ship to the distribution center. So, it seems to me that their end-of-line testing on the manufacturing line needs improvement. They shouldn't be shipping units that have transmission issues and overheat.

 

[RyanG]

I to feel same way about mine. Low gear is clunking so bad. I went with honda for no belt and i think im regretting it now. Might ride it out this year and possibly sell it for a can am. Which i always end up going back too. Maybe i should just stuck with can am. A new belt will ve hell of alot cheaper than tearing the sub transmission apart all the time.

 

[Heathmc3827]

This may seem odd but -
Never an issue until I overfilled the subtransmission oil and it immediately started grinding and was hard to shift into low. No issues before oil change.
I Drained oil and refilled correctly and no more issues in low.
It wasn't much over full.
Just sayin, that was the case with mine.
Worth a check anyway.

My case was the same. To much oil caused it to grind going into low gear. Drained to correct level and instantly fixed the issue. No more grinding....

 

[Samson]

I have this problem now! Out of warranty. anyone know how much to repair at dealer?? 💸💸💸

 

[Ericthered]

My 2017 1000-3 is in the shop getting the lower reverse gears installed. Cost is $450 labor. The exact same work is involved, so that should be the same. I like many of you discovered that the correct way to measure the dipstick is NOT screwing it in. Once I did check the correct way and drained excess engine and sub transmission oil everything has been smooth and easy shifting. Doesn't take much to make it act up. Only other issue was the engine grounds being loose. All 3 were hand tight. Put a wrench on them and haven't had any issues for 2,600 miles and many desert mountain trips. Once you burp your coolant system, check the grounds, and be sure the gearboxes are serviced correctly you will love the fact that you'll be towing that CanAm back to camp. So far only Polaris for me to tow, but I'm sure there's more belt/clutches out there a long ways from town.

 

[BeOffGrid]

I meant to update this thread on my essentially brand new machine (<30hrs at initial post).

Summary:
The summary is that I won't buy a Honda side by side again and I wish I never did, but I invested so much in the accessories up front that I'm sticking with it for now. After the engine overheated twice and the transmission required two tear downs to repair the low gear, I bought the longest extended Honda warranty possible and I'm hoping that it lasts until then and I'll sell it. Chances are that I'll sell it before then so that I can transfer the warranty.

Details:
It's painful to see major issues followed by brand loyalty on this forum but that's status quo. I'm fed up.

My initial call with Honda was 45 minutes or so about the low gear grinding and the engine overheating. The representative (don't have his name off hand) asked me about a lot of details and kept me on the phone that long during a weekday work day for me, which I thought would lead to at least Honda giving me an additional warranty of any length. It turns out that was a total waste of time after I spoke with Honda corporate a second time with a woman who must be the west coast lead (she was the "case manager"). I got nothing from Honda. Sorry, I'm sure I have their names somewhere and the forum deserves names. People and companies need to be accountable.

Immediately after the repair at home, I discovered that the shifter for turf/4x4/etc was stuck in 4x4 diff lock. That's not a major issue for me since that's how I mostly use it but I can't shift to anything else. The shifter moves but there's no response. I have yet to take it to my most local dealer to repair this since there's a couple month wait and they might not warranty the service after inspection. After all, the dealer that I bought it from could have damaged it but they're an extra 1.5 hour drive away. Well, doesn't that make me feel good that I bought this expensive machine that keeps having issues.

Now I also have a two new recalls notices that also need shop inspection,

Presently, shifting into low gear from park occasionally grinds. I live in the mountains at 6000' so perhaps that has something to do with it. Often, I hear low gear grinding from park to low, but if I shift to neutral or high and let the machine roll down hill, then low gear will engage especially if I pull the shifter really firm. This is the same experience that I had before low gear was previously non-functional so I might need it repaired again.

The initial overheating issue that I had could have been attributed to firmware, a bad factory coolant fill or the driving conditions at the time. I had the firmware updated, I drained and replaced the coolant as per the manual, and the machine has been fine operating in low gear to around 4000-4500 RPM, I suggest staying below 4000 RPM especially when going uphill. Our usual climb on previously tracked snow is about 200 feet over a mile and it'll go from 2 bars to 3 bars with a noticeable hot smell along the way if I sustain 4000-4500 RPM. However, the low gear transmission failure and issue that it still seems to have is a dealbreaker.

There's no reason that consumers should have to pull so hard to low gear or fill the transmission or engine oil just right in order for the product to operate as it should.

The attached invoice notes the replaced parts. Since the machine was delivered to me, I didn't see any of the failed parts.