My new Canned Ham!

[Crow_Hunter]

Well the Pioneer that I "loved" so much is now on its way to becoming someone else's pride and joy. Many thanks to Outer Limits Power Sports in Dyersburg. They gave me a very fair trade on my Pioneer and set me up nice with a HD8 XT Defender.

I just got in from taking for a spin up and down my hills. Man, it was nice. The difference in going up and down hills at 7 MPH in this versus my old Pioneer is no comparison. The low range in this machine is what the Pioneer SHOULD have. You HAVE to give it gas to go down hill in Low Range otherwise it will just creep along at 1 MPH or stop. On the same areas my Pioneer was hitting 4-5 MPH with engine braking. It is also much quieter going that slow although it is a little louder at my normal 25 MPH cruising speed because you can't upshift to a higher gear. But it also doesn't have neck wrenching downshifting when letting off the gas. I think the dogs, at least, will really like it. No more jerk sliding into things.

Obligatory pics:



These are the things I specifically like on the Defender that Honda really should look at:

Opens and shuts just like a pickup.

Lays flat, Honda.....

Doors come with storage bags incorporated and they DON'T rattle, at all.

They even have weather stripping....

And the nets are unobtrusive. I was going to remove them but they don't get in the way at all and actually let you rest your arm on them and it is soft.

Continued

Sorry about the random extra pics, apparently I had to learn how to work it.

 

[Admin]

 

[Crow_Hunter]

$25 storage nets that just snap in. Fits a Woodsman's Pal with plenty of room.


Nice gauge cluster that is easy to read, even when the light is reflecting off it.


Seats pop up and the left container comes with it. I added the middle container. The both snap in and out.

Under the drivers seat storage. I thought it would get in the way but only if you have the adjustable seat all the way back. At my preferred driving position, you can't tell it is there.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Under the hood. Which lifts up by pulling it forward and up. Nice and clean. Tool kit on the left.


Notice prewired for winch remote under the hood. Very nice other than it didn't come with one. Has a dash switch instead.

Engine "bay" easy to get to everything and you can check the oil without doing contortions and using a stop watch!!

Vent lines are not run into the frame to suck in water when you wash it and intake is not in the way of splashing.
Hinges are not as far back. It makes it easier to dump but harder to lower. I prefer the easier to dump. Hinges are also replaceable rather than being incorporated into the frame.

Ash tray!!! Ya'll remember them? Great cubby hole for stuff.

Another storage area over the gauge cluster. Great for gloves.

12V plug

2nd 12V plug (factory equipped)

Glove/tackle/tool box gimmick. Some engineer probably got a raise for coming up with it, it is dumb. Good space though.

Sorry for the fuzzy pic. Lighted 4WD, Rear Diff Lock, and Work/Normal/Eco mode. Work mode is very nice. It does keep you from jerking around. Diff lock/unlock/4WD all worked nearly instantaneously with NO SHIFTER DRAMA!!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Things I don't like, (so far)

-The seat, while SUPER comfortable, makes my butt sweat. It isn't anywhere near as hot as the Pioneer but it is 90+ degrees and it doesn't feel like it "breathes" as well as the Honda. Probably because it isn't as hard. I am getting seat covers for it though.
-It still doesn't feel as "sturdy" as the Pioneer. While I didn't like the Pioneer, it certainly feels more solid than the Defender.
-It looks goofy. The Pioneer is still the best looking machine out there.
-I don't like the way the doors look or feel. The Honda doors feel better and look better although they rattle where the Defender doesn't.

Well, assuming I don't get deleted from the board, I'll hang around and keep you guys updated as I find more things that I don't like.

Hey, I can't b**** about my Pioneer anymore.

 

[Hondasxs]

Nice @Crow_Hunter,
In the end, it really doesn't matter what you have as long as your out there having fun.
Sure, hang around all you like. We will still be here when @Honda finally releases the [HASHTAG]#Talon[/HASHTAG] in a few dozen years. hahah..
I do want a more detailed difference update in a few weeks or so. So please come back at least a few times and update this post. \
And to end. I just want to thank you for being a part of this community.
If you need anything just hit me up.
Thanks.

 

[allgm1]

Well, assuming I don't get deleted from the board, I'll hang around and keep you guys updated as I find more things that I don't like.
.

No you can hang around, just change your username to "rubber band man". J/K. I like a lot of those features you pointed out, but your right it is ugly. What do they claim the ground clearance to be? it looks really low. As long as you like it thats all that matters right?

 

[CumminsPusher]

Well Crow everything has its ups and downs and has trade offs to some degree, every rig is made for different people. You haven't been really ever happy so I really do wish you luck, it would be nice to see you out enjoying something finally. I also am very interested in a comparison from you with a few miles driven. There are alternative endings to all stories, keep us updated and congrats!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

No you can hang around, just change your username to "rubber band man". J/K. I like a lot of those features you pointed out, but your right it is ugly. What do they claim the ground clearance to be? it looks really low. As long as you like it thats all that matters right?

11 inches. I think I need to measure it though. When I sit in it the weatherstripping at the bottom of the doors catches the sides of my trailer and hangs up. The Pioneer didn't do that. (But the Pioneer didn't have weatherstripping on the doors either) I can lean towards the passenger side to get the door closed but it is annoying. I might need to stiffen up the suspension, or like my 100 lb wet wife said to just let her drive it.

It is definitely ugly. When you look up in your rear view mirror and see the Defender on the trailer you want to look away.

The Honda has the looks department in my opinion. The only thing I like the look of more than the Pioneer 1000 is the Can Am Commander.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Nice @Crow_Hunter,
In the end, it really doesn't matter what you have as long as your out there having fun.
Sure, hang around all you like. We will still be here when @Honda finally releases the [HASHTAG]#Talon[/HASHTAG] in a few dozen years. hahah..
I do want a more detailed difference update in a few weeks or so. So please come back at least a few times and update this post. \
And to end. I just want to thank you for being a part of this community.
If you need anything just hit me up.
Thanks.

I am fairly active on the Honda FB page as well trying to help people out and pushing them to join here and get answers. This is a much better resource than FB for people that have problems.

I am taking it out this weekend, if it isn't pouring down rain to the farm to ride around on my slow woods trails and some field riding. So I should be able to give some more details then. Going out here in a few minutes to see how bad the lighting situation is. I will miss the LED headlights on the Pioneer, they were nice.

I still don't think the Pioneer is bad. The Defender just fits me better right now. I think if I were a faster driver/more focused on trail riding the Pioneer would have been ideal.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

One of the reasons the ground clearance probably looks a little low is because my yard REALLY needs to be mowed bad. I just noticed that looking at the pictures. I am not allowed (Dr and wife's orders) to mow the yard right now so it only gets mowed when my wife has time, which means it really needs to be mowed.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Another dislike, while it doesn't look like it, the hood/bumper actually extends out noticeably further than the Pioneer. I prefer the "cab forward" design of the Pioneer. It has a more unobstructed view.

Another couple of likes, however, are the placement of the head rests/back roll bar and ability to "coast" down in high gear.

The higher head rests and rollbar means the dogs don't think they can just cross between the bed and the front and aren't continually trying to climb over into the front seat with us. When you let off the gas from say 20 MPH or so it has a pretty constant deceleration much like a car instead of a "step down" deceleration in the Pioneer when it would downshift. No more dog heads or asses banging into the back of the seats on a downshift or scrabbling around trying to keep their footing when hanging over the side.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Claimed his new ride.

Hard to get him out, he laid in there for 15 min after we got back. He loves to ride. He won't jump up by himself though like the other lab, he puts his front legs on it and looks back an you and whines so you will help him up.

Only reason he got out was because I went to the truck to unhook the trailer and he thought I might take him for a ride in the truck.

Giant stinky goof ball.

 

[JTW]

The tail gate is how it should be along with the storage options!

 

[hondabob]

I think you get a 3 year warranty and the 1st service is at 1,800 miles. The airbox intake may be in a dirty dusty area so check your airfilter.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I think you get a 3 year warranty and the 1st service is at 1,800 miles. The airbox intake may be in a dirty dusty area so check your airfilter.

The 3 year warranty was only on the 2016 models. The 2017 doesn't have that. The first service is required at 100 hours or 1,000 miles in dusty conditions and twice that in non-dusty or once a year. I will likely be doing it once a year.

I was thinking about adding a Unifilter to the intake since it is back up behind the passenger seat based on your comments back last year just to give it a little extra filtration. (Assuming it doesn't starve the engine for air) The areas I ride in aren't too dusty and I normally ride pretty slow.

No one has reported any issues yet with dust ingestion and there are some people with some significant miles on them.

 

[Dragon21]

im loving that storage on the defender. Hope it suits your needs. As long as your riding and happy, it doesn't matter what your in. Every machine has its ups and downs. I think with some bigger tires the defender could look pretty good. Kinda looks like a big body on a small frame from the pictures. Enjoy!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

im loving that storage on the defender. Hope it suits your needs. As long as your riding and happy, it doesn't matter what your in. Every machine has its ups and downs. I think with some bigger tires the defender could look pretty good. Kinda looks like a big body on a small frame from the pictures. Enjoy!

Thanks! I am overwhelmed with all the storage. I can't decide where to put everything. I guess I will have to get more goodies to stuff in all the boxes.

That is one of the advantages of the Defender. It is so low geared that people are putting 32" plus tires on it without having to mess with the clutching and no problems. When the stockers wear out, I will go a little bigger at least. (Probably 28" EVOs or maybe 30" if I don't have to get a lift.)

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Well we took it out to the farm yesterday and put about 40 miles or so on it with mixed black top, field roads and woods trails driving.

This is going to sound odd but it is kind of "boring" to drive versus the Pioneer. You pretty much put it in Lo Range and push the gas. Where with the Pioneer you had to upshift to make it quieter or switch to manual to protect the clutches or something. I don't know why but I found driving the Defender to be way less involving than the Pioneer.

It was way quieter than the Pioneer at slow speed driving in the woods and it was way cooler, even with the half doors. There was some heat coming out of the two storage openings in the dash after the machine got hot. Similar to the heat coming out of the shifter opening on the Honda. It wasn't blowing directing in my face though, which made it more tolerable to me. I will probably investigate putting some foam or something back in the back of the compartments just to see if that will stop the air movement. The seats and seat backs stayed cool.

Another thing that I found that Can Am did better than Honda was the wheel wells. They are smooth rather than having that honeycomb of plastic squares:



This came in handy because I hit a 2" diameter stick wrong and it slid up the wheel well and got wedged in there. While I don't know for sure I suspect that if I had done this with the Honda the stick would have gotten trapped in those squares instead of sliding and would have either broken the stick or punched through the floor. I had to cut it in two to get it out. Luckily, since I have so much more room in the Defender I was able to just pull out my folding saw and cut it, otherwise I am not sure how I would have gotten it out because it was wedged in there pretty good.

While I was down there I noticed another thing that I like. Steel braided brake lines both front and rear.



We had to go through a bunch of very tall grass and bushes because the guy that was supposed to be bushhogging has flaked out on me.

The bumper and corner protectors worked very well:

You can see all the marks from the stuff that we pushed through. Didn't hit us or the machine at all.

Pushing through all that grass did cause the CVT filter to get a lot of stuff stuck to it. The belt never overheated but that is something that I will need to keep an eye on in the future. It had a bunch of fuzzy seeds stuck to it.

We had a good time and we had no drama driving it. It went through everything the Honda did without any problems although, as I said in the beginning it was kind of boring to drive. The Pioneer certainly has more going on and I think a "car person" who likes to be connected to their vehicle would definitely prefer the Pioneer over the Defender. I am not one of those people but I still noticed it.

My brother rode with me one time and now he has decided that he wants a Defender instead of the Wolverine that he was going to get. He said he much preferred the Defender to the Pioneer by a wide margin and he was a pretty big fan of the Pioneer even though he isn't a Honda fan. He had actually advised me to not get rid of the Pioneer but now thinks I made a good decision.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

There was one thing that I found that I am not a fan of. That is the big hole in front of the radiator right above the winch. There is a screen in front of it but as you can see, trash does get in there. I am not sure whey they did it like that. It really needs a grill or something to keep little seeds and leaves and such from piling up in front of it. I had to clear away a handful or so and as you can see there are still some in there. I will blow them out after they have had time to dry out some more.

It was rather dusty when we were riding so I pulled the air filter to check it. It was clean. I even light blew on it with compressed air and didn't see any dust. I was actually expecting it to be pretty dusty but it wasn't. I am still going to get a unifilter to place on the intake just to make sure.

Early this afternoon my wife took it around to do some work in the yard and around the house. She came back with a huge smile and said that she greatly preferred it to the Pioneer. She said it was much easier for her to drive in work mode.

All in all I am more satisfied with the Defender after my first run than I was with the Pioneer on the same first run. If the weather isn't terrible the coming weekend I plan on taking it out again and doing some different trails and such.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Report on the 2nd "major" (for me anyway) ride on the new Defender.

Yesterday was Beautiful riding weather in West TN so we did some riding around the farm. Finally got through the 100 mile/10 hr break in period. Sitting somewhere around 103 miles, IIRC.

Yesterday we went around and checked some extremely muddy fields (tropical storm Cindy dumped a bunch of water here) to look for Indian artifacts. Much harder to do now that most farmers are using no-till and we drove around on the farm.

This time we drove around with 3 people in the cab. This IS something that I fully believe that the Pioneer would have been better for. While having 3 full grown men (roughly 600 total lbs) in the cab wasn't uncomfortable, it wasn't comfortable either. It was really only problematic on off camber situations where my passengers (brother and buddy) where trying not to lay over on each other. Now we drove in similar weather with my wife in the passenger side back seat last year in the Pioneer and she was complaining about the heat on the No Step bump. I bought a bilge fan hoping that would help some but never installed it and we didn't use the back seats again.

While it wasn't super hot yesterday, it was in the lower to mid 80's and we were driving in Low Range and 10 MPH a big portion of the time. None of us got hot. My brother and myself to a spin around the farm after it started to get dark and I actually got cold and started shivering if we got above 15 MPH. But I am on blood thinner plus recently lost about 30 lbs so that might have been a contributing factor.

There was a 50 yard section of field road about that we drove through that is normally dry but because of all the rain it was 4-6in of soupy mud with grass over the top so you couldn't tell it was mud before you got in it. I hit it in Low Range Turf mode about 8 MPH, I was expecting to get stuck but other that fishtailing a little here and there as it lost a little traction it powered right through it. My brother told me he was super impressed as the RPMs didn't even go up. After we got through that, I locked the rear diff and put it in 4WD just to be safe. There wasn't anything to winch off of on that road if I had gotten it stuck. When we came back through it didn't even notice the mud.

I commented again while we were driving that the Defender is pretty boring to drive compared to the Pioneer. There isn't much going on. My buddy sitting in the middle seat said that he personally would prefer that and I liked the Defender quite a bit more than the Pioneer. He had ridden with us one time before (same weekend my wife used the back seats) and he said he much preferred the Defender. He actually was the guy that had originally wanted to sell his Rhino and buy my Pioneer that prompted this whole escapade. Now he wants to sell his Rhino and get a Defender and my brother wants to get a Defender now instead of the Wolverine he had his sites on before.

I didn't like the headlights though. While I don't have a direct comparison against the Pioneer since I never went on a night ride in it, the Defender NEEDS MOAR LIGHT. They are conventional bulbs so they have kind of a yellowish tinge to them versus the clear white LED lighting that the Pioneer had. The throw of the light is good but it is aimed too high. I am going to look at getting some LED bulbs and probably going to get an LED lightbar for it. While I don't plan on doing a bunch of night riding, I think it would definitely be a useful accessory for when I do.

ETA: Another thing that I like about the Pioneer better than the Defender is the foot well. The Defender foot well is tighter than the Honda so there isn't as much room to put your left foot and twice now I have hung my foot up when getting out. It isn't near as bad as the Wolverine or the P500 was but I never got my foot hung on the P1000 and never felt cramped.

I didn't think to take my camera with me yesterday so these pics are from this morning. (I don't own a smart phone)

Obligatory pics:

Proof of mud:

These smooth wheel wells are going to be much easier to clean.

Rear tie down point. This is easier to get to on the Defender than on the Pioneer.

Front tie down point. This is something that Honda really needs. The Honda suggested tie down points are above the shocks which mean you have to either crank the hell out of them (or lose the tiedown on a bump) and squat the machine or tie down to an A-Arm or something. This doubles as a good recovery point for towing/snatching. This is directly under the winch.

These are a couple of items that I have added that are useful:

The seat covers do a good job of fixing the only complaint that I had about the seats. I don't get "butt sweat" anymore. These help my butt breathe without affecting how comfortable the seats are. They still swallow you up and feel great. They were cheap universal ones that I got off Amazon.

This was an idea I swiped off the Defender Facebook page. Instead of wiring in an overhead light, I just got a puck light. Runs of 3 AAA batteries and is surprisingly bright. Sticks to the roof with a circle of 3M adhesive pressure tape. This was very useful while night driving. (I also got one to go in the gun safe. )