This machine..........

[Boomboom907]

Well guys.... Something stupid happened.

Jesus visited my Honda.

Don't ask me how, but the clutches are fixing themselves. They were messed up, I drive it back to my trailer and it was getting worse and worse up to like 4500 rpm.

Backed it off trailer yesterday to clean it off as someone was coming to look at it (hopefully going to buy it) and when I put it in reverse, do you know what happened?

Nothing. The clutches were terrible. 4k to back it off the trailer. After I got it off the trailer I let it run for a sec and shut it off. Sprayed it down for an hour. Dude shows up, I turn it over. It won't start. It just turns over and over and over.

Weird. It's never done that. I had left the snorkel off when I was spraying it. Great. Luckily I was cleaning the a arms and stuff, so I must have just got a few light drops in there.

Thing ignites gas and we're off, runs like a top.

Clutches totally fixed.

I can't explain what happened. I don't really understand

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Admin]

 

[Delton]

Well guys.... Something stupid happened.

Jesus visited my Honda.

Don't ask me how, but the clutches are fixing themselves. They were messed up, I drive it back to my trailer and it was getting worse and worse up to like 4500 rpm.

Backed it off trailer yesterday to clean it off as someone was coming to look at it (hopefully going to buy it) and when I put it in reverse, do you know what happened?

Nothing. The clutches were terrible. 4k to back it off the trailer. After I got it off the trailer I let it run for a sec and shut it off. Sprayed it down for an hour. Dude shows up, I turn it over. It won't start. It just turns over and over and over.

Weird. It's never done that. I had left the snorkel off when I was spraying it. Great. Luckily I was cleaning the a arms and stuff, so I must have just got a few light drops in there.

Thing ignites gas and we're off, runs like a top.

Clutches totally fixed.

I can't explain what happened. I don't really understand

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Maybe it wasn't a clutch problem. Clutches either grip or don't. Maybe an electrical problem. Maybe an oil pressure problem. MAYBE Honda made this clutch way too complicated to be on an off-road vehicle.

 

[Eltobgi]

Well guys.... Something stupid happened.

Jesus visited my Honda.

Don't ask me how, but the clutches are fixing themselves. They were messed up, I drive it back to my trailer and it was getting worse and worse up to like 4500 rpm.

Backed it off trailer yesterday to clean it off as someone was coming to look at it (hopefully going to buy it) and when I put it in reverse, do you know what happened?

Nothing. The clutches were terrible. 4k to back it off the trailer. After I got it off the trailer I let it run for a sec and shut it off. Sprayed it down for an hour. Dude shows up, I turn it over. It won't start. It just turns over and over and over.

Weird. It's never done that. I had left the snorkel off when I was spraying it. Great. Luckily I was cleaning the a arms and stuff, so I must have just got a few light drops in there.

Thing ignites gas and we're off, runs like a top.

Clutches totally fixed.

I can't explain what happened. I don't really understand

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sounds similar to what happened to @JTW

 

[dilligaff82]

In my experience, when something is this intermittent it's usually electrical. It would be interesting to see if there's a way to hook up a volt meter to the clutch solenoids and see what they're up to.

 

[swsebek]

MAYBE Honda made this clutch way too complicated to be on an off-road vehicle.

That Is exactly what I have come up with as well.I love how Hondas fix themselves....LOL

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Maybe it wasn't a clutch problem. Clutches either grip or don't. Maybe an electrical problem. Maybe an oil pressure problem. MAYBE Honda made this clutch way too complicated to be on an off-road vehicle.

I don't disagree but doesn't Honda use a DCT on a couple of ATVs and several motorcycles and a nearly identical one on the Africa Twin?

I know when I was researching the P1000 I spent a lot of time scouring the Africa Twin forums and everyone there LOVES the DCT. It seems to be the greatest thing since sliced bread for them. That was one of my motivating factors.

So what is the big difference between them?

Off the top of my head it would be the weight and the speed/heat dissipation.

You would think that with so many different machines using it, this would have been a problem elsewhere unless it is a specific set of variables for the Pioneer.

 

[JTW]

Sounds similar to what happened to @JTW

Yeah.. only they're back out now. I know mine wasn't initially the cause of an electrical issue. Hence, the going in and out now baffles me!

 

[JTW]

@CDTpower had an interesting thought... maybe the computer that's continually learning your driving habits to improve shifting is somehow screwing up... or what if it's compensating for the slipping with the initial fix until it goes completely out? I still don't fully understand how the DCT works but I certainly don't understand the degree of slipping I had for weeks, to just completely stopping for a week.. and now back to slipping. There was no water involved. Mine started because the throttle was used to hold it on the side of a mountain when the brakes went out (THEY NEED A FREAK'N E-BRAKE!!). So I thought I understood why and how they went out originally... but now I'm just at a loss. Maybe it's as simple as something in the computer not communicating well. I dunno??

 

[Delton]

I don't disagree but doesn't Honda use a DCT on a couple of ATVs and several motorcycles and a nearly identical one on the Africa Twin?

I know when I was researching the P1000 I spent a lot of time scouring the Africa Twin forums and everyone there LOVES the DCT. It seems to be the greatest thing since sliced bread for them. That was one of my motivating factors.

So what is the big difference between them?

Off the top of my head it would be the weight and the speed/heat dissipation.

You would think that with so many different machines using it, this would have been a problem elsewhere unless it is a specific set of variables for the Pioneer.

Also difference in how they're driven to consider. Nobody creeps around with an African. Utility sxs should be able to run around at 2mph without problems.

 

[JTW]

Also difference in how they're driven to consider. Nobody creeps around with an African. Utility sxs should be able to run around at 2mph without problems.

Lol... "nobody creeps around with an African"... Tell that to the low self esteem, fat, white chicks of the world!

 

[chadbo]

Lol... "nobody creeps around with an African"... Tell that to the low self esteem, fat, white chicks of the world!

Lmfao

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Lol... "nobody creeps around with an African"... Tell that to the low self esteem, fat, white chicks of the world!

 

[swsebek]

The African twin is on a 460 lb. bike and is not on a ton of SXS. also bikes don't run in reverse as much or when they do not under the load a SXS is.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

The African twin is on a 460 lb. bike and is not on a ton of SXS. also bikes don't run in reverse as much or when they do not under the load a SXS is.

That is two very good factors.

But what about the DCT on the Rubicon? While it isn't the same design (smaller) it should be similar and be used similarly to the Pioneer. If scaled up appropriately, I would think it should carry through.

Unless it is something I am missing.

 

[DRAGFOOT]

The African twin is on a 460 lb. bike and is not on a ton of SXS. also bikes don't run in reverse as much or when they do not under the load a SXS is.

You don't think the gearing is calibrated to the weight of a SXS? My guess is the gearing is setup (or supposed to be) so the clutch has a similar load on all the different applications.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Just for "stuff' and giggles I was looking around on the Procaliber website for the Rubicon DCT.

2017 Honda TRX500FA5 AC CLUTCH (DCT) | Pro Caliber

One thing I noted is that you can buy individual clutch plates.

Another notable point is that on the end of each clutch assembly (Part 7 and 8) there is a Clutch End Plate A and Plate B (respectively) that have multiple options for thickness. I assume by looking at the drawing that you can you can "tighten" or "loosen" the clutch by varying the end plates to change the total stack thickness.

The rest of it looks similar to that for the Pioneer 1000 other than the primary driven gear seems to have a spring assembly on the P1000. I assume the parts are larger in diameter than those in the Pioneer. I wonder if the Rubicon driven gear is the same but not represented on the visible side in the drawing.

Those that have had their clutches apart, do the bits and pieces look significantly different?

 

[Neohio]

Just for "stuff' and giggles I was looking around on the Procaliber website for the Rubicon DCT.

2017 Honda TRX500FA5 AC CLUTCH (DCT) | Pro Caliber

View attachment 47755
One thing I noted is that you can buy individual clutch plates.

Another notable point is that on the end of each clutch assembly (Part 7 and 8) there is a Clutch End Plate A and Plate B (respectively) that have multiple options for thickness. I assume by looking at the drawing that you can you can "tighten" or "loosen" the clutch by varying the end plates to change the total stack thickness.

The rest of it looks similar to that for the Pioneer 1000 other than the primary driven gear seems to have a spring assembly on the P1000. I assume the parts are larger in diameter than those in the Pioneer. I wonder if the Rubicon driven gear is the same but not represented on the visible side in the drawing.

Those that have had their clutches apart, do the bits and pieces look significantly different?

View attachment 47756

Are the seals 22 and 7 the same part number?
Gear 13 vs 4?
washer 16 vs 5?

 

[Crow_Hunter]

They aren't the same part number.

If you look at the O-rings the Rubicon is O-RING (31.2X1.9) while the Pioneer is O-RING (35X2.2) which is about an 11% difference in diameter. If we assume proportionality of the rest of the parts then the other components would be similarly sized.

If you were to scale that up linearly (which I don't think it will), the Pioneer 1000-5 is roughly 1500 lbs and the Rubicon DCT is 700 lbs, I would have thought it would have required more than an 11% increase in parts size.

I am sure there are lots of other factors involved such as more clutch plates, higher mu friction material, higher pressure oil pump, etc that play into that.

But that is still a surprisingly small difference between a clutch for a 700 lbs machine with a 1300 lbs towing capacity and a 1500 lbs machine with a 1000 lbs payload/2000 lbs towing capacity.

 

[Boomboom907]

Well I dropped it at the shop. I basically told them it works great when it wants, and hopefully it doesn't want to while it's staying with them.

I found a buyer, and he wants a clean bill of health. I'm happy to oblige.

When I hear more from the mechanic I'll post

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[swsebek]

You don't think the gearing is calibrated to the weight of a SXS? My guess is the gearing is setup (or supposed to be) so the clutch has a similar load on all the different applications.

I also would assume"Guess" Honda wouldn't be replacing clutches in there Flag ships and sending owners to other mfg.s
Good luck BoomBoom