P1000 To groove or not to groove

BWAF

BWAF

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So going with light truck tire but thinking about opening them up some more for rock cliff's and what not as far as trail riding. Dont do the mudding .The white is what I was going to cut out. 720108a58acfa7a967c096ee608759b8Stock 00b45a28b6fb7986d5781062d577ad1a1st option 3712fa1986ec884e8888095b4ee1ad132nd option. Looking for some feed back

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BWAF

BWAF

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@CumminsPusher did I post this in the wrong spot or is out side of normal people thinking ?

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Cuoutdoors

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So going with light truck tire but thinking about opening them up some more for rock cliff's and what not as far as trail riding. Dont do the mudding .The white is what I was going to cut out.View attachment 73037Stock View attachment 730381st option View attachment 730392nd option. Looking for some feed back

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I would discourage it. I have light truck tires and did not have any trouble with any rocks at RRB. I climbed some big ones too with no issues. To your point, opening them up won't really help on rocks. You need lots of surface area contacting the rock and siping adds a little bite. Think like a snow tire....

Cutting them would help in mud but not on rock. They would probably get worse. Larger surface area = higher coefficient of friction and that's what moves you forward.

I say at least run them a while and see how you like them. Run 8-10 psi. I had mine at 12 but it was a bit much.

I think guys are slowly warming up to this light truck tire idea. I think you will be very happy with how they perform just the way they are.

Just my 2 cents

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CumminsPusher

CumminsPusher

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@CumminsPusher did I post this in the wrong spot or is out side of normal people thinking ?

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You’ll get more hookup the more open as I’m sure you’re thinking. The only downside is it leaves the lug more susceptible to being torn off
 
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BWAF

BWAF

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I would discourage it. I have light truck tires and did not have any trouble with any rocks at RRB. I climbed some big ones too with no issues. To your point, opening them up won't really help on rocks. You need lots of surface area contacting the rock and siping adds a little bite. Think like a snow tire....

Cutting them would help in mud but not on rock. They would probably get worse. Larger surface area = higher coefficient of friction and that's what moves you forward.

I say at least run them a while and see how you like them. Run 8-10 psi. I had mine at 12 but it was a bit much.

I think guys are slowly warming up to this light truck tire idea. I think you will be very happy with how they perform just the way they are.

Just my 2 cents

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Thank you now I have 3 cents lol

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Leatherneck

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Option 1 with maybe more siping in the side lugs also the more horizontal surface the more traction it will also cut surface tension and allow the tire to "flatten" out more and still hold more air to prevent sidewall pinching.
 
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BWAF

BWAF

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You’ll get more hookup the more open as I’m sure you’re thinking. The only downside is it leaves the lug more susceptible to being torn off
Very true,just wondering what do or not to do . The more input I get I can make a better decision.

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BWAF

BWAF

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Option 1 with maybe more siping in the side lugs also the more horizontal surface the more traction it will also cut surface tension and allow the tire to "flatten" out more and still hold more air to prevent sidewall pinching.
If your thinking what I'm thinking more flex ?

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Cuoutdoors

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You’ll get more hookup the more open as I’m sure you’re thinking. The only downside is it leaves the lug more susceptible to being torn off
Hook up eh? What does that come from?....friction....ie static or kenetic....more contact equals more friction. You can't have less rubber and get more contact....

In an ideal world the better your tire conforms to the surface the more traction/ friction you have. But we're talking about a contact patch that's MAYBE a 6" square. Your tire won't flex a lot so cutting out tread isn't helping as it pertains to rocks or hard surface....

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nbomar

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Hook up eh? What does that come from?....friction....ie static or kenetic....more contact equals more friction. You can't have less rubber and get more contact....

In an ideal world the better your tire conforms to the surface the more traction/ friction you have. But we're talking about a contact patch that's MAYBE a 6" square. Your tire won't flex a lot so cutting out tread isn't helping as it pertains to rocks or hard surface....

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While I understand what your saying it is somewhat true but somewhat not. If your theory were accurate we could all run racing slicks and have a lot more contact patch. Your tires definitely don’t flex and contour the rocks like the atv tires do, but I can say I was thoroughly impressed with the handling characteristics on the gravel and blacktop. Not even the same machine as mine. You do need some rubber (ie contact patch) but you also need section that are cut out to hopefully grab rocks, dirt, etc.


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Cuoutdoors

Cuoutdoors

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[QUOTE="nbomar, post:

While I understand what your saying it is somewhat true but somewhat not. If your theory were accurate we could all run racing slicks and have a lot more contact patch.

Lol i knew someone were going to say this. But you kind of drive the point home. Why do they run slicks in nascar? Becuase they are running on a very smooth, very dry surface. They have the ultimate tire to surface contact.

Add rain to that surface and you need sipeing (however the f that is spelled) to carry away the rain water

Add mud and you need really deep sipeing to get past the mud to a hard surface to gain traction.

And so on etc etc.

SO, We want a tire to work in a variety of surface environments. More specifically you (BWAF) are targeting rocks and dirt and not really deep mud.

Which leads to bomars next point...

Your tires definitely don’t flex and contour the rocks like the atv tires do,

In an ideal world....key word ideal.... we would have the perfect tire compound to flex and wrap around the objects we are driving over. Rocks are typically rough, the better a tire can flex/ adapt/ wrap to the surface, the more tread contact you will have and more traction. Having tires with lugs instead of racing slicks gives the tire more ability to accomplish this task of conforming to the surface and in turn gives more traction. This is why a strictly winter tire has a lot of sipeing. It conforms to all the snow and ice crystals for better traction.

BWAF you and I have a tire that is stiffer than the average atv tire and they don't flex as much. Run them at 8psi they will flex a fair amount but still not as well as an atv tire. So since the contact patch is small and has limited flexibility, cutting out big pieces of lug is a bad idea....AS this pertains to rocks and trails...which is what you were asking.....Mud is a different story.


but I can say I was thoroughly impressed with the handling characteristics on the gravel and blacktop. Not even the same machine as mine.

Thanks Bomar you're a gentleman and a scholar.


You do need some rubber (ie contact patch) but you also need section that are cut out to hopefully grab rocks, dirt, etc.

If you want to do some cutting, some small, very shallow grooves wouldn't be a terrible idea. Much like the outer lugs of the tire on the left in Leathernecks pic. Then you're still leaving plenty of rubber for traction. if you cut the middle of the lug out all together it's not going to achieve what you're looking for.

The rubber compound and PSI of the tire also play a major role in this as well...
 
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BWAF

BWAF

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While I understand what your saying it is somewhat true but somewhat not. If your theory were accurate we could all run racing slicks and have a lot more contact patch. Your tires definitely don’t flex and contour the rocks like the atv tires do, but I can say I was thoroughly impressed with the handling characteristics on the gravel and blacktop. Not even the same machine as mine. You do need some rubber (ie contact patch) but you also need section that are cut out to hopefully grab rocks, dirt, etc.


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All great points this is what I'm looking for maybe leave them alone for a while , maybe just do out side of center see if it improves. Make like a hybrid

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crazychris

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following since I now have 15 inch rims. figure I wear these moto claws out 1st though. night and day on gravel vs the big horns. still need to test them at my deer camp where I see most of the heavy mud.

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Leatherneck

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If your thinking what I'm thinking more flex ?

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Yes exactly, rock crawlers call it tuning your tires.making lateral cuts in those huge blocks of rubber will relax the tire and let it flex more. On the down side there is chunking, but these machines are so light and under powered compared to a truck that I really don't the no it will be a problem I mean truck tires are made for a 3000+ pounds machine.
 
BWAF

BWAF

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Yes exactly, rock crawlers call it tuning your tires.making lateral cuts in those huge blocks of rubber will relax the tire and let it flex more. On the down side there is chunking, but these machines are so light and under powered compared to a truck that I really don't the no it will be a problem I mean truck tires are made for a 3000+ pounds machine.
That's what I was thinking just getting everyone's thoughts and put it all together .Maybe it will work

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Leatherneck

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That's what I was thinking just getting everyone's thoughts and put it all together .Maybe it will work

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Damn I thought I was done spending for a while now thinking about cutting up a pair of 14" set of super swampers
 
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BWAF

BWAF

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Ok so tires and wheels mounted and on .No grooving as of now want to do some testing. But wanted to update everyone. Ok the beads on truck tires are thick I'm pretty sure I'll half to make 1/4 spacers to go in between beadlock and wheel and get longer bolts as of now the Rings are not torqued to the rim only to the bead of the tire. There's still room in between the lock and the rim I don't think that's right.But overall pretty happy so far .If I had to do it again @Cuoutdoors dont know if I would have gone beadlock but,they look awesome.10f50a9a5300ed947f589241e43958e61b6e5ad66a6e585b2e019e6ac5f32846311b1adc14030f3fb52b28e54daca6c9

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