Observations and things I learned at the 2023 take over.
To understand my perspective you must first know my experience. I’ve been a motor sport / gear head all my life. I’ve ridden in groups with Goldwings, trucks, dirt bikes, ATV’s, PWC’s, canoes and Kayaks even horses. Thats 50 years of group riding experience. I attend annual gatherings of like minded people to socialize and glean ideas, and help each other anyway we can. (One group generally has around 300 rigs, twice a year) I also have miles and miles of riding that doesn’t cost a penny, paying to ride goes against my nature but tolerable for the right place with the right people.
This is my wife and I’s perspective from what we encountered. I don’t need or want an explanation. I’m only providing this for the few who might actually give a sh!t.
Observation
1. Extremely disorganized. If you’ve attended multiple TO’s and know what going on and who people are, it helps. But for a new person, it’s chaos and a complete cluster f***. When we arrived on Fri. everyone was out riding as expected. However, we couldn't find anyone or any information about the events so we made a solo ride to TOW.
I looked at the tent / canopy area and didn't see anything posted about scheduling. So I learned there isn't much of a schedule.
Why couldn’t helpers all wear a bright colored shirt and hat to identify who they are, not NEEDED but make it easier for newbies. I asked Richard and he basically followed what was posted, but as y'all all say, it really just kind of a suggestion. Which he explains and he sends me to someone who should know, go to the person he said to go to and they say something different. Told we would meet at a certain point for a ride, they left from a different location & time so we were left behind. It's possible there were mistakes about who or what ride I was asking about... but thats kinda my point.
As I had spotty (to slow to deal withand constantly dropping when we did connect) service at the site using the forum wasn't an option. Saturday evening I believe I saw volunteers with grey shirts, I wouldn't have notice except Richard mentioned them at the raffle.
2. Group rides are a disaster. First group we went with was a night ride. The group split multiple times and went in different directions. Heading back home people left in different directions and split into multiple groups. Guide? There was no guide, or there were to many, Richard was on that ride, he told me one thing then the group did something else. Someone else tried to help and sent me down a black trail at night, which no one else took. After hauling ass down this trail until I could confirm no one else came this way, I had to turn around where there was no place to turn around.
Second group ride I was on has been discussed thoroughly in another thread. Side of the trail fighting biting flies for two hours +, never reached our destination. Every other group I’ve ever riden with has a recovery team designated prior to the ride. Groups need a lead, a drag and recovery team. Most groups standard were, 30 min to get’m rolling or it’s time for the group to go and recovery team takes over. I'm not talking about paid or sponsored anything, just people using basic trail etiquette. Any member of the ride could volunteer for the responsibility of any position or not. Generally I ride drag and do the recoveries, as this was a new location, I thought it best to leave this for someone who knows the area.
3. Band was decent / good and I enjoyed the genre they played.
4. I didn’t really care because I didn’t buy raffle tickets, but I heard multiple people complaining about the system used where they get to choose whatever prize they want. After a few top prizes were gone people started leaving. Just an observation, I don't do raffles but thought feedback may be useful, if y'all like it this way great, doesn't matter to me.
5. The wife and I made multiple attempts to meet people and interact Fri afternoon, Sat morning and Sat evening. We left feeling very unwelcome. After introducing ourselves providing my screen name introducing my wife, NOT ONE PERSON INVITED US TO JOIN IN ANYTHING… Not a ride, a meal, a drink, a chair or even a conversation… nothing. We felt like the third person on a date. We approach a campsite with folks sitting around, no one gets out of their chair to greet us, introduce ourselves they say hi but don’t introduce themselves. I’ve seen sooooo many post about how great everybody is on here… from my experience that not true. Maybe to the clicks they’ve already formed, but anyone else is an outsider and made to feel that way. At least thats the way we felt. (One guy, I can’t remember name, met on the trail when going solo to top of the world. Saw him in camp and he came to talk to us, nice guy cheerful and friendly. Still didn’t introduce anyone, or suggest any activity.)
I’m saying this only as a gauge to how we felt:
I attended a camping event where most everyone there is in a home made / self converted camper. School busses, box trucks, cargo trailers… etc. 95% of everyone there was hard core liberals. I’m hard core conservative. We felt so much more welcome by them than we did this group. Stop, take a breath and think about that.
6. I commented a little about my experience at the TO and the reply was I need to plan better if I’m going to travel that far and should stay longer. I planned based on the information posted in the forum which I’ve now learned is really just kind of a suggestion. (See #1) If you already know whats going on from multiple events, and know everyone I’m sure it’s easier. This was scheduled for two days, I was there both days. It felt like we were infringing on other people activities. (BTW RRB site plainly says check in NO EARLIER THAN 3pm, rides are scheduled for that morning, see any problems?) Until they knew I was self contained they were going to charge me for being there early.
7. I don’t know who the guy was, but I ask him if he was going on one of the group rides. He laughed and said “no, I ain’t riding with these folks, tried it, won’t go no more” and he drove away before I could ask anymore questions. So I'm not the only one who's had issues. Again, just an observation from my experience.
So this guy has attended multiple events and has came to the conclusion he’s better off riding solo with a GPS. What does that tell ya? Seriously, this isn't a bash session, try to stop and consider what I'm actually saying.
8. Location. The group was scattered all over the place. Trying to figure out whos with us and who isn’t was a pain. Of course, when everyone and every machine is covered in mud, that could happen regardless.
9. Meal tickets. These worked out well. My Sandwich was pretty good.
10. Haldog77 & Jackal are stand up good folks. They were patient and helpful, thanks guys.
For us, we didn’t get to see anything on a group ride. We went to the top of the world on Friday when no one was around. Thats it, that’s all we got to see. We sat and ate and tried to talk to people… nope. I burned a little over ½ tank of fuel. I’ve done more than that in my back yard.
Our goal was to get acclimated to the group, scout it out and decide if my brother (p700) and son in law (polaris ranger) and “partner in crime” (p-700) and a couple of other guys we ride with would want to attend. If it would be something my grandkids would enjoy. The kids looked like they were having fun and my grandkids would have a blast. But it’d be stupid to attend just for the grandkids.
The wife and I won't be back, lesson learned. Get a GPS for trails and avoid the group, just like the guy who drove off said. (see #7) Instead of blaming me for the whole experience try to consider my perspective. I planned and expected to meet some folks that enjoy the same things as me and see some new trails. Both were fails. Both the rides we went on were fails. I'm sure thats not the case for everyone but thats our experience.
After all this you may think I’mma big ole A-hole cry baby, you can think whatever you like. But I’m the new guy looking for a place to explore new trails, have a blast riding and meeting people who enjoy the same things. I don’t know, but how many people have the same experience as us and just walk away with no comment? I’ve seen several comments about people who don’t stick around. Our perspective is the groups feel like they’re big enough and they don’t want anyone else, and they could care less about growing this event.
Edited for clarification and additional info. (and removal of Modelo Negra influenced comments.)
Someone privately mentioned my service dog and they didn't approach us because of her. That is absolutely understandable. Everyone's experience with k9's are different, I'm not so cavalier as to try to tell them they are wrong for there beliefs. I could explain all about her and her training... etc. But that doesn't help anything or anyone. Their experiences are unknown to me and it would be extraordinarily rude for me to accuse them of having unjustified concerns.
That being said, if anyone else didn't approach us due to our service dog, it's fine. Also, if we did talk to you and I may have turned away suddenly, the bouncing SXS had her nerves on edge. I was constantly watching her to make sure she was OK. I watched for several indicators including when she needed to potty. Off leash she goes to the bushes, on leash she goes where ever if I'm not paying attention. Turning her away from stress helps keep her calm and re-enforces her trust of me. I apologize if anyone thought I was brushing them off. That was not the case at all, just trying to take care of the girl who takes care of us. (she's a registered service dog, not emotional support)
To understand my perspective you must first know my experience. I’ve been a motor sport / gear head all my life. I’ve ridden in groups with Goldwings, trucks, dirt bikes, ATV’s, PWC’s, canoes and Kayaks even horses. Thats 50 years of group riding experience. I attend annual gatherings of like minded people to socialize and glean ideas, and help each other anyway we can. (One group generally has around 300 rigs, twice a year) I also have miles and miles of riding that doesn’t cost a penny, paying to ride goes against my nature but tolerable for the right place with the right people.
This is my wife and I’s perspective from what we encountered. I don’t need or want an explanation. I’m only providing this for the few who might actually give a sh!t.
Observation
1. Extremely disorganized. If you’ve attended multiple TO’s and know what going on and who people are, it helps. But for a new person, it’s chaos and a complete cluster f***. When we arrived on Fri. everyone was out riding as expected. However, we couldn't find anyone or any information about the events so we made a solo ride to TOW.
I looked at the tent / canopy area and didn't see anything posted about scheduling. So I learned there isn't much of a schedule.
Why couldn’t helpers all wear a bright colored shirt and hat to identify who they are, not NEEDED but make it easier for newbies. I asked Richard and he basically followed what was posted, but as y'all all say, it really just kind of a suggestion. Which he explains and he sends me to someone who should know, go to the person he said to go to and they say something different. Told we would meet at a certain point for a ride, they left from a different location & time so we were left behind. It's possible there were mistakes about who or what ride I was asking about... but thats kinda my point.
As I had spotty (to slow to deal withand constantly dropping when we did connect) service at the site using the forum wasn't an option. Saturday evening I believe I saw volunteers with grey shirts, I wouldn't have notice except Richard mentioned them at the raffle.
2. Group rides are a disaster. First group we went with was a night ride. The group split multiple times and went in different directions. Heading back home people left in different directions and split into multiple groups. Guide? There was no guide, or there were to many, Richard was on that ride, he told me one thing then the group did something else. Someone else tried to help and sent me down a black trail at night, which no one else took. After hauling ass down this trail until I could confirm no one else came this way, I had to turn around where there was no place to turn around.
Second group ride I was on has been discussed thoroughly in another thread. Side of the trail fighting biting flies for two hours +, never reached our destination. Every other group I’ve ever riden with has a recovery team designated prior to the ride. Groups need a lead, a drag and recovery team. Most groups standard were, 30 min to get’m rolling or it’s time for the group to go and recovery team takes over. I'm not talking about paid or sponsored anything, just people using basic trail etiquette. Any member of the ride could volunteer for the responsibility of any position or not. Generally I ride drag and do the recoveries, as this was a new location, I thought it best to leave this for someone who knows the area.
3. Band was decent / good and I enjoyed the genre they played.
4. I didn’t really care because I didn’t buy raffle tickets, but I heard multiple people complaining about the system used where they get to choose whatever prize they want. After a few top prizes were gone people started leaving. Just an observation, I don't do raffles but thought feedback may be useful, if y'all like it this way great, doesn't matter to me.
5. The wife and I made multiple attempts to meet people and interact Fri afternoon, Sat morning and Sat evening. We left feeling very unwelcome. After introducing ourselves providing my screen name introducing my wife, NOT ONE PERSON INVITED US TO JOIN IN ANYTHING… Not a ride, a meal, a drink, a chair or even a conversation… nothing. We felt like the third person on a date. We approach a campsite with folks sitting around, no one gets out of their chair to greet us, introduce ourselves they say hi but don’t introduce themselves. I’ve seen sooooo many post about how great everybody is on here… from my experience that not true. Maybe to the clicks they’ve already formed, but anyone else is an outsider and made to feel that way. At least thats the way we felt. (One guy, I can’t remember name, met on the trail when going solo to top of the world. Saw him in camp and he came to talk to us, nice guy cheerful and friendly. Still didn’t introduce anyone, or suggest any activity.)
I’m saying this only as a gauge to how we felt:
I attended a camping event where most everyone there is in a home made / self converted camper. School busses, box trucks, cargo trailers… etc. 95% of everyone there was hard core liberals. I’m hard core conservative. We felt so much more welcome by them than we did this group. Stop, take a breath and think about that.
6. I commented a little about my experience at the TO and the reply was I need to plan better if I’m going to travel that far and should stay longer. I planned based on the information posted in the forum which I’ve now learned is really just kind of a suggestion. (See #1) If you already know whats going on from multiple events, and know everyone I’m sure it’s easier. This was scheduled for two days, I was there both days. It felt like we were infringing on other people activities. (BTW RRB site plainly says check in NO EARLIER THAN 3pm, rides are scheduled for that morning, see any problems?) Until they knew I was self contained they were going to charge me for being there early.
7. I don’t know who the guy was, but I ask him if he was going on one of the group rides. He laughed and said “no, I ain’t riding with these folks, tried it, won’t go no more” and he drove away before I could ask anymore questions. So I'm not the only one who's had issues. Again, just an observation from my experience.
So this guy has attended multiple events and has came to the conclusion he’s better off riding solo with a GPS. What does that tell ya? Seriously, this isn't a bash session, try to stop and consider what I'm actually saying.
8. Location. The group was scattered all over the place. Trying to figure out whos with us and who isn’t was a pain. Of course, when everyone and every machine is covered in mud, that could happen regardless.
9. Meal tickets. These worked out well. My Sandwich was pretty good.
10. Haldog77 & Jackal are stand up good folks. They were patient and helpful, thanks guys.
For us, we didn’t get to see anything on a group ride. We went to the top of the world on Friday when no one was around. Thats it, that’s all we got to see. We sat and ate and tried to talk to people… nope. I burned a little over ½ tank of fuel. I’ve done more than that in my back yard.
Our goal was to get acclimated to the group, scout it out and decide if my brother (p700) and son in law (polaris ranger) and “partner in crime” (p-700) and a couple of other guys we ride with would want to attend. If it would be something my grandkids would enjoy. The kids looked like they were having fun and my grandkids would have a blast. But it’d be stupid to attend just for the grandkids.
The wife and I won't be back, lesson learned. Get a GPS for trails and avoid the group, just like the guy who drove off said. (see #7) Instead of blaming me for the whole experience try to consider my perspective. I planned and expected to meet some folks that enjoy the same things as me and see some new trails. Both were fails. Both the rides we went on were fails. I'm sure thats not the case for everyone but thats our experience.
After all this you may think I’mma big ole A-hole cry baby, you can think whatever you like. But I’m the new guy looking for a place to explore new trails, have a blast riding and meeting people who enjoy the same things. I don’t know, but how many people have the same experience as us and just walk away with no comment? I’ve seen several comments about people who don’t stick around. Our perspective is the groups feel like they’re big enough and they don’t want anyone else, and they could care less about growing this event.
Edited for clarification and additional info. (and removal of Modelo Negra influenced comments.)
Someone privately mentioned my service dog and they didn't approach us because of her. That is absolutely understandable. Everyone's experience with k9's are different, I'm not so cavalier as to try to tell them they are wrong for there beliefs. I could explain all about her and her training... etc. But that doesn't help anything or anyone. Their experiences are unknown to me and it would be extraordinarily rude for me to accuse them of having unjustified concerns.
That being said, if anyone else didn't approach us due to our service dog, it's fine. Also, if we did talk to you and I may have turned away suddenly, the bouncing SXS had her nerves on edge. I was constantly watching her to make sure she was OK. I watched for several indicators including when she needed to potty. Off leash she goes to the bushes, on leash she goes where ever if I'm not paying attention. Turning her away from stress helps keep her calm and re-enforces her trust of me. I apologize if anyone thought I was brushing them off. That was not the case at all, just trying to take care of the girl who takes care of us. (she's a registered service dog, not emotional support)
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