Wow...getting some interesting responses to this...
1st, i want to reiterate how badly these images and video represent this climb. These were steep, and at one point on the left climb, you can see the front tires come up for a bit. The bottom is really a near vertical step that's hard to see. The small pine in the pic actually grows away from the rocks at a pretty good angle, so my pic may actually be canted slightly clockwise from level.
Just for reference, i am a big pile at 270+lbs and probably 30 LBS of gear. This is about 4800-5000 feet elevation, and the machine has 377 miles on it, running 87 octane.
nagromr1 said:
My question is on left.side climb did you have the pedal mashed to the.floor at anytime.
Yes, it took full throttle to get going. To be honest, i am actually surprised it pulled itself up, as i'll discuss shortly...
OK...so why do this vid?
We know what rep this drive-train has in certain circles that are covered in mud. Low power and tall gearing are not a hot combo for big tires and mud. Yet there is the odd post that complains that this machine is simply not suited to extreme terrain even on stock tires.
I ignored these comments when buying the Pioneer, giving Honda credit for knowing what they are doing. About 2 weeks ago, i wondered if i had made a mistake by doing so. While playing around in a wash and climbing some
very steep banks, i got into a situation where all 4 tires dug in and simply refused to turn. I was quite livid at the time, and really ready to trade it that day...but i calmed down enough and tried to convince myself that this was not a big deal, since when i actually had tried to climb the banks ( rather than screwing around on them ), the machine never actually failed to climb them.
Still, this gnawed at me. One of my personality faults is that once i am disappointed with something, i tend to become more and more bitter toward it, and its best to just remove it before i have a chance to get pissed and break it. In short, things that disappoint me don't stick around long, and over the next few trail rides, this was building. And for my type of personality, i can not have a good time with this approach. All i feel is anger when i look at it. I really, REALLY wish i wasn't this way...
So for the last few rides, i was intentional avoiding any area where i might be tempted to test the thing...and the disappointment it would bring. Riding on egg-shells, you might say...
At some point i found myself thinking of Ranger 570's...or maybe Prowlers...machines i don't really want, as trade bait during the ride...and i realized right then and there that i had to make a decision on this thing and clear my mind, one way or another. The bitterness was building, so Sunday i headed straight for a place i knew would put it to the test: Some Moab-esque rock domes nearby. At the end of the day i was going to be resolved to trade it or keep it.
The video above is a result of that "testing". I really didn't expect it to climb these from a dead stop at all, but it surprised me. Especially when it spun all 4 in diff lock. From this, it appears i have completely underestimated the load placed on the drive-train in my wash climbing incident and the ensuing 4 holes. I would have thought this was much more load...yet it pulled this.
Here are my thoughts on what happened...
The 1st climb was relatively easy, although still quite steep. This was with one person...so your next question might be: Would it do these hills with...
a) 2 people? The right one, definitely ( assuming were not talking about 2 sumo wrestlers ). The left...i dunno. Its really hard to judge a torque converter's ability until you really load it. Lets say it didn't climb or spin the tires with 2 people. Now lets say we somehow added a low range to the pion: What would it do? Sit and spin the tires...and NOT climb the hill.
b) 3/4 people? The right one again...i think it would probably pull 4 average sized people up it. The left...maybe not, but even if it had a low range...we can see from my vid that it would be pointless since all it would do is spin tires. And honestly, where the back passengers sit in the Pioneer...you've not going to climb the left hill without flipping. Same for any significant cargo. too much rear weight.
OK, you're disappointed you
might not be able to take 4 people up this, so you trade for a Ranger 570...that holds only 2 people. Or a Ranger crew that bottoms on the break-over, and will only sit and spin the tires anyway...and NOT climb the hill. Or a Teryx 4, and not climb the...well, see a theme here? Ok...you could maybe get a 900 or 1000 RZR to spin them fast enough to rocket up this...but is that what a Pioneer is really meant to replace? And honestly...most people would never have the sack to even attempt these hills anyway.
Keep in mind that all the scenarios i mentioned above are with NO momentum, from a standing start. When rolling....i think it would pull any reasonable load of people/cargo up either with ease.
In short, i think that for most of us, lower gearing would be pointless, since it would result only on wheel-spin, and do nothing to actually help climb the hill. I actually find the Pioneers ability to crawl through rock gardens outstanding, so i don't miss the low range there either.
In fact, i think the lack of low range may be as much about aesthetics as any real need. Case in point; A Pioneer does what mine did on the left, spins tires slowly, and "looks" like it's weak. Now, a Ranger pulls up in low range and does this manly psych job by revving up and proving it can turn those tires in any situation...and sits there spinning wildly and hopping, and doesn't climb the hill any better than my Pioneer...
In fact, if there's a wild-card here, its the Pioneers ability to put power to the ground. Its almost erie in snow...and i am not at all sure that any other SxS would actually be able to climb that left hill at all with pure traction. I spent an hour on youtube looking for just such a thing. I thought i found one Rhino...then i realized there was a rope on the front bumper with people pulling to keep it from flipping.
The exceptions to the don't-really-need-it low range thing: Bigger tired guys could use it. I still maintain that i would never put bigger tires on this machine...as it does seem maxed out where it is. But...several have done it with no complaints.
The other is very high altitudes..though again, i wouldn't say never until i had tried it...and we do have a few people that have said they work fine at 12000 feet.
It's a little funny that some of you seem to be...sorta making some excuses now that i am actually very satisfied with what i saw this day. I think it has all it needs for my use...and if a Power commander and a Uni give it a bit more ommph, even better.
After all this...i went out and had the first truly enjoyable ride i've had in 2 weeks. The sky was blue, and exploring called my to the horizion, and i feel as though i did make the right choice after all.
