P1000 2016 pioneer dies when idle

[AdamR]

It has brand new plugs

 

[Admin]

 

[MSPioneer1000]

It has brand new plugs

That shoots my idea down. maybe you can pull the plug wires and see if anything changes. If you pull one and nothing happens, then pull the other and it dies it could be your coil pack like you're saying.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm surprised by the number of complaints I'm seeing on the general subject of drivability issues. No start, won't idle, misfires, runs rough, stumbles on acceleration, etc.

In my opinion most if not all of these complaints result from bad gasoline. Bad gasoline almost always involves ethanol. Ethanol is a terrible product put in our consumer gasoline for braindead political reasons by corrupt politicians buying votes. When gasoline containing ethanol is unused for several months it goes bad quickly and leaves deposits in tanks, fuel lines, carburetors, and fuel injectors. It's very difficult to impossible to remove.

The problem with ethanol in gasoline

We recently bought our first home and will be buying a lawn mower, trimmer and snow blower. In doing my research, I found warnings about the harm that ethanol in modern gasoline can cause to these engines as well as to my dad’s Olds 4-4-2, which I ...

www.theglobeandmail.com

I don't know how effective fuel injector cleaning products are but if I had an engine, lawnmower, chainsaw, UTV. or automobile that had been parked for a period of time with gasoline in the tank and was suffering from drivability complaints I would first try draining the fuel tank, refilling with fresh gasoline, and adding prescribed mixtures of a fuel injector cleaner before I started replacing parts.

 

[Jakey]

Run a can of sea foam through it. That usually helps the ethanol problems

 

[AdamR]

Its not a fuel problem the rear cylinder fires fine the front one has the problem

 

[HBarlow]

Its not a fuel problem the rear cylinder fires fine the front one has the problem

Are you sure? Front cylinder could have a fouled injector from bad gas.

Does the front spark plug have spark as the distributor fires it?

 

[AdamR]

Are you sure? Front cylinder could have a fouled injector from bad gas.

Does the front spark plug have spark as the distributor fires it?

Ya. I put HEET in the fuel and loaded it with injector cleaner. No change. Ive changed the spark plugs the injectors the injector wires and the air filter. It still idles rough and wants to die. The only thing left is the coil packs that i can think of.

 

[HBarlow]

Sounds expensive and frustrating. I hate throwing new parts on a machine with no results.

Have you performed a compression check? Have the valves been adjusted and shimmed if necessary?

I'm in the dark here and guessing because I don't have any experience with these engines. I don't know what common failures have occurred.

Does your Honda have a lot of miles? Regular service? Hard use or babied?

 

[AdamR]

Sounds expensive and frustrating. I hate throwing new parts on a machine with no results.

Have you performed a compression check? Have the valves been adjusted and shimmed if necessary?

I'm in the dark here and guessing because I don't have any experience with these engines. I don't know what common failures have occurred.

Does your Honda have a lot of miles? Regular service? Hard use or babied?

1600 miles regular service. Inbetween hard and babied i guess. I think ny next choice is to take it to a local shop. It runs fine when you drive but idles really bad

 

[HBarlow]

I don't know anything beyond the basic about the ECM or fuel injectors. My knowledge and skill ended with carburetors and distributors. I would take it to a dealer but unless you've got a friendly relationship with your dealer this is a bad time of year to take a utv to a dealer for work.

Please come back and tell us what you eventually learn. We'll all learn.

 

[MSPioneer1000]

Ya. I put HEET in the fuel and loaded it with injector cleaner. No change. Ive changed the spark plugs the injectors the injector wires and the air filter. It still idles rough and wants to die. The only thing left is the coil packs that i can think of.

Swap your coil packs and see if the problem moves from the rear to the front. If it does it it your coil pack. If not then it's something else.

 

[HBarlow]

As we all know, an internal combustion gasoline-fueled engine must have compression, fuel, and spark to run.

I did a little reading and realized our engines use throttle body injection, not individual port injectors. I think if gum deposits from bad ethanol fuel are present it should affect both cylinders not just one.

A loss of compression could be caused by an a valve not completely closing. I'm not familiar with the valve train in our engines so I don't know if valves out of adjustment result in a valve not fully open or not fully closed.

A simple compression check should determine if compression in one cylinder is slightly low.

 

[Ericthered]

You may be barking up the wrong tree. My 2017 stated doing the same thing, except it happened at 65 miles. It was loose grounds. Didn't throw any codes, but ran like crap at idle. Put it in gear and she'd die. Found all 3 grounds were loose. One really loose and 2 others at least 1 turn with a wrench. I'd check these before going to a dealer. These machines are electronic. If there is inconsistent power it will lose it's mind.

 

[0860silverado]

As we all know, an internal combustion gasoline-fueled engine must have compression, fuel, and spark to run.

I did a little reading and realized our engines use throttle body injection, not individual port injectors. I think if gum deposits from bad ethanol fuel are present it should affect both cylinders not just one.

A loss of compression could be caused by an a valve not completely closing. I'm not familiar with the valve train in our engines so I don't know if valves out of adjustment result in a valve not fully open or not fully closed.

A simple compression check should determine if compression in one cylinder is slightly low.

Not throttle body injector. One injector on each cylinder's intake port.

 

[HBarlow]

Are you sure? All I know is what I read:

SPECIFICATIONS​

PIONEER 1000-5​

• 
  

SELECT A TRIM

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

ENGINE

• Engine Type​

  999cc liquid-cooled twin-cylinder Unicam® four-stroke

• Bore And Stroke​

  92.0mm x 75.15mm

• Compression Ratio​

  10:1

• Induction​

  Fuel Injection (PGM-FI), 44mm throttle body

• Ignition​

  Full-transistorized with electronic advance

 

[0860silverado]

Are you sure? All I know is what I read:

SPECIFICATIONS​

PIONEER 1000-5​

View attachment 266184

• 
  

SELECT A TRIM

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

ENGINE

• Engine Type​

  999cc liquid-cooled twin-cylinder Unicam® four-stroke

• Bore And Stroke​

  92.0mm x 75.15mm

• Compression Ratio​

  10:1

• Induction​

  Fuel Injection (PGM-FI), 44mm throttle body

• Ignition​

  Full-transistorized with electronic advance

Yes, the throttle body is 44mm but the 2 injectors are not in the throttle body. (I may be wrong, I'm just going by memory when I changed my injector wires.) When I think of "throttle body injection", I think of an early 90's Chevy pickup with one single injector for all cylinders mounted in the throttle body. Just spraying fuel into the intake and letting the air suck it into the cylinders. One technological step above a carburetor. I think the Honda induction is more like the late 90's Chevy Vortec 350 with an injector for each cylinder, opened and closed at precise timing with each power stroke.

 

[HBarlow]

If the engine has a throttle body injection system why would it have two more injectors?

 

[0860silverado]

If the engine has a throttle body injection system why would it have two more injectors?

It has throttle body INDUCTION, not injection. (injectors are on the intake manifold, not in the throttle body. )

 

[HBarlow]

Of course induction is through the throttle body! That's like saying exhaust is through thee exhaust pipe.

Copy and paste from Honda Powersports Specifications:

"Fuel Injection (PGM-FI), 44mm throttle body"

 

[dmio]

Curious if you figured this out @AdamR as my 2016 is doing the same thing. I only run it 3-4 times a month on average, but every time I get it up to temp. I did have it sitting for about a month - went to go run it and idle was goofy like yours. Just sounded like it was only firing on a single cylinder and then it randomly dies. I drained the tank, put in new premium (non-oxy, which is what it normally gets) along with some Seafom. Still does the same thing. Pulled the fuel pump out and the filter looks generally OK - but when I called the dealer they told me it's the entire assembly which seems wrong. I have the service manual but it's worthless for part numbers so by the time I figured out a part I scraped from online I had already hung up with the gentlemen. I think I'll just order them online anyway and replace, it wasn't too much to get it all out and apart - but man that is the dumbest design for a fuel filter.

Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's not going to idle. Now it'll barely start - and if I do get it running I can't get it in gear before it dies. The transmission won't engage if you start it in drive unless it's below a certain RPM it seems, so moving it onto the trailer if I can't get it going is going to be by way of the Kubota. In neutral I can sometimes get it up over 1000 RPMs and then it seems to run fine, but as soon as you let off throttle it sputters and dies.

I'm going to try and reseat the main ECU plugs under the seat as someone recently posted similar symptoms because of a poorly seated connection. I had looked at those main three connectors and pulled up on them a bit but didn't really try to pop them out and reseat them / check them for moisture. Going to pop new spark plugs and (maybe) a new battery in it - it's the original from 2016 but I put it on the tester and it rated at 198 CCA. I think the factory battery is 200, those Yuasa batteries are generally pretty solid.

Someone also said to check the frame ground(s). From the service manual it looks like ground connects under the front seat kind of between the drivers seat and the middle front seat. I was skimming the manual but didn't see anywhere that explicitly called out the locations very obviously. If anyone has any pointers on where those are about, I'd appreciate it. It's a 1000-5 so kind of a PITA to get at anything without taking out 30 clips and all kinds of other plastic.

But if you did figure it out I'm curious what it was. Ghosts in the machine are no fun.