Another Talon Motor bites the Dust

[GPR1500SC]

The poorly designed air intake sucked enough dust to plug the air filter and sucked all the oil out of the engine and my fifteen year son was running it down the road until it stopped.

This is my engine I just put together with new pistons and cases, we where using it around the farm as a utility vehicle to break the engine in.

So I changed oil on it and considered it ready to ripp I never thought of pulling the air filter as it had less than 100 miles on it and let my son take it to check the neighbors hog barn's that he was helping take care of on the second day about a half mile from home it started rattling and lost power.

 

[Admin]

 

[Newbiehere]

Sorry to hear that, smoked the engine same way on RZR. I won’t own another SxS without a true particle separator.

 

[GPR1500SC]

I see particle separator in my near future!

 

[Mopower58]

@highpocket74 seems to have some nice prefilters for a Talon.

 

[HondaTech]

So where did all the oil go?

No smoke from burning it?

If it did indeed remove the oil from engine it had to go somewhere.

The DCT still had oil pressure or it would've shut off to save itself.

 

[Smitty335]

So where did all the oil go?

No smoke from burning it?

If it did indeed remove the oil from engine it had to go somewhere.

The DCT still had oil pressure or it would've shut off to save itself.

Exactly my issue

 

[906UP]

@highpocket74 seems to have some nice prefilters for a Talon.

Sorry to hear this @GPR1500SC

Before you dive into a particle separator take a good look at @highpocket74 set up, I had the Honda Acc S&B on for a year & half, filter still got dirtier than I would like, once I switched to HP74's set up my filter still looks like new after 2 yrs. I run an oiled UNI Filter on mine

 

[CID]

A snorkel with a prefilter is just about mandatory on a Talon. The original air intake system is a yuge fail on Honda's part. I know another Talon owner that abandoned his S&B separator, noise and visibility issues IIRC.

I copied HondaBob's idea but didn't run it up under the roof. I'm still using my original, stock filter, at 11,xxx miles. Details, including part numbers, linked in my sig for the curious.

 

[DRZRon1]

The poorly designed air intake sucked enough dust to plug the air filter and sucked all the oil out of the engine and my fifteen year son was running it down the road until it stopped.

This is my engine I just put together with new pistons and cases, we where using it around the farm as a utility vehicle to break the engine in.

So I changed oil on it and considered it ready to ripp I never thought of pulling the air filter as it had less than 100 miles on it and let my son take it to check the neighbors hog barn's that he was helping take care of on the second day about a half mile from home it started rattling and lost power.

there is always more to the story

15 year old, all oil mysteriously vanished, nobody saw a cloud behind the machine - interesting

really need pics

 

[Remington]

I see particle separator in my near future!

Not to be a boob here!
But Id think as long as you've been here you would have known this already and the first thing to do to a talon. Frankly surprising cuz we beat it like a dead horse about snorkel/pre filter even with P1’s no matter where you drive. Now if you really never seen or knew it? Then it is what its at this point.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Sorry to hear this @GPR1500SC

Before you dive into a particle separator take a good look at @highpocket74 set up, I had the Honda Acc S&B on for a year & half, filter still got dirtier than I would like, once I switched to HP74's set up my filter still looks like new after 2 yrs. I run an oiled UNI Filter on mine

This. 4500 on my stock filter and still going.

 

[CumminsPusher]

The poorly designed air intake sucked enough dust to plug the air filter and sucked all the oil out of the engine and my fifteen year son was running it down the road until it stopped.

This is my engine I just put together with new pistons and cases, we where using it around the farm as a utility vehicle to break the engine in.

So I changed oil on it and considered it ready to ripp I never thought of pulling the air filter as it had less than 100 miles on it and let my son take it to check the neighbors hog barn's that he was helping take care of on the second day about a half mile from home it started rattling and lost power.

Man I’m sorry to hear that buddy! Sucks

 

[Newbiehere]

So where did all the oil go?

No smoke from burning it?

If it did indeed remove the oil from engine it had to go somewhere.

The DCT still had oil pressure or it would've shut off to save itself.

Oil went out the exhaust essentially. Dust in the motor, that bypassed the air filter will eat the rings on the piston and you start burning oil. Destroyed my RZR with only around 1000 miles on it. I was trying to be careful and keep the filter clean, but nope, day one of a desert trip and next thing I know I was getting towed back to camp.

 

[HondaTech]

Oil went out the exhaust essentially. Dust in the motor, that bypassed the air filter will eat the rings on the piston and you start burning oil. Destroyed my RZR with only around 1000 miles on it. I was trying to be careful and keep the filter clean, but nope, day one of a desert trip and next thing I know I was getting towed back to camp.

I know how it theoretically should work.
But unlike POS RZRs,Talons don't normally smoke out the exhaust.

There should of been plenty of warning before it got that far

 

[GPR1500SC]

So where did all the oil go?

No smoke from burning it?

If it did indeed remove the oil from engine it had to go somewhere.

The DCT still had oil pressure or it would've shut off to save itself.

I am not 100% certain only 99% where the oil went I assume through the engine as the air box was full of oil and I didn't need to add any oil during the 50 to 60 miles I drove it on what I considered it's break in cycle, there are no leaks, and I had not noticed any smoke out the exhaust during that time.

 

[GPR1500SC]

there is always more to the story

15 year old, all oil mysteriously vanished, nobody saw a cloud behind the machine - interesting

really need pics

Yes there is a lot more to the story but it doesn't change the fact that the inferior intake design cost another Talon owner a motor failure due to my failure to replace the air filter.

So the details are this.
In those 50 to 60 miles I drove on dust gravel roads and field lanes I plugged the air filter, doing the same work with the pioneer with the air intake under the hood it was never a problem I can get well over a thousand miles on it before it needs to be replaced so even with the known filter problem I never imagined the Talon was that bad.

Important detail two
Before I turned a 15 year old boy that unfortunately acts like his father into a modded Talon I set the speed limiter table to 50 mph and the ignition timing back to stock only to figure out the next day that Honda by default has set third fourth and fifth gear speed cut out to zero milliseconds meaning they only limit sixth gear, and my son comes home and says there is something wrong with the Talon everytime it shifts into sixth it cuts out so I just kept it in fifth and knowing him that means he ran it close to red line all day, oiling the already plugged air filter, day two third fourth and fifth cut out just like sixth gear problem solved.

Detail Three
It got 11.9:1 compression pistons and a cam in it.


So let's recap the details if the filter was clean you could run a Honda motor at red line all day long and would of been fine.

Poorly designed air intake plugged filter faster than I expected and the plugged filter trashed the engine which was my fault for not checking it.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Yes there is a lot more to the story but it doesn't change the fact that the inferior intake design cost another Talon owner a motor failure due to my failure to replace the air filter.

So the details are this.
In those 50 to 60 miles I drove on dust gravel roads and field lanes I plugged the air filter, doing the same work with the pioneer with the air intake under the hood it was never a problem I can get well over a thousand miles on it before it needs to be replaced so even with the known filter problem I never imagined the Talon was that bad.

Important detail two
Before I turned a 15 year old boy that unfortunately acts like his father into a modded Talon I set the speed limiter table to 50 mph and the ignition timing back to stock only to figure out the next day that Honda by default has set third fourth and fifth gear speed cut out to zero milliseconds meaning they only limit sixth gear, and my son comes home and says there is something wrong with the Talon everytime it shifts into sixth it cuts out so I just kept it in fifth and knowing him that means he ran it close to red line all day, oiling the already plugged air filter, day two third fourth and fifth cut out just like sixth gear problem solved.

Detail Three
It got 11.9:1 compression pistons and a cam in it.


So let's recap the details if the filter was clean you could run a Honda motor at red line all day long and would of been fine.

Poorly designed air intake plugged filter faster than I expected and the plugged filter trashed the engine which was my fault for not checking it.

I will agree the front intake Pioneer is much better design, however it didn’t initially work out the best especially for a few of us lol. I just finally had to clean stock Pioneer filter (need to change but was up camping) and it’s a ‘16. Was really really bad but still ran. My Talon with same conditions wouldn’t have made it over 2-300, judging by my friends, without a prefilter. My Talon never saw any miles from me without a prefilter because of all the complaints I saw from nearly everyone.
Many sxs’s suffer from same s***ty spot for intake, it’s not just Honda. Thank God there’s not a belt cooler intake there too like some.

 

[GPR1500SC]

Not to be a boob here!
But Id think as long as you've been here you would have known this already and the first thing to do to a talon. Frankly surprising cuz we beat it like a dead horse about snorkel/pre filter even with P1’s no matter where you drive. Now if you really never seen or knew it? Then it is what its at this point.

Yes I new the air intake was a problem I didn't realize how bad it was I thought it was more of a dune riding problem.

We should high lite every engine failure! we are dealing with the Asian culture.

they are a proud people and refuse to make any changes to a product unless you can document it, if you showed the engineer that designed the intake this thread he would say see stupid American didn't change his air filter he would NEVER admit it was a poor design.

 

[DRZRon1]

Yes there is a lot more to the story but it doesn't change the fact that the inferior intake design cost another Talon owner a motor failure due to my failure to replace the air filter.

So the details are this.
In those 50 to 60 miles I drove on dust gravel roads and field lanes I plugged the air filter, doing the same work with the pioneer with the air intake under the hood it was never a problem I can get well over a thousand miles on it before it needs to be replaced so even with the known filter problem I never imagined the Talon was that bad.

Important detail two
Before I turned a 15 year old boy that unfortunately acts like his father into a modded Talon I set the speed limiter table to 50 mph and the ignition timing back to stock only to figure out the next day that Honda by default has set third fourth and fifth gear speed cut out to zero milliseconds meaning they only limit sixth gear, and my son comes home and says there is something wrong with the Talon everytime it shifts into sixth it cuts out so I just kept it in fifth and knowing him that means he ran it close to red line all day, oiling the already plugged air filter, day two third fourth and fifth cut out just like sixth gear problem solved.

Detail Three
It got 11.9:1 compression pistons and a cam in it.


So let's recap the details if the filter was clean you could run a Honda motor at red line all day long and would of been fine.

Poorly designed air intake plugged filter faster than I expected and the plugged filter trashed the engine which was my fault for not checking it.

im just impressed that

a. you know how to rebuild the motor yourself
b. found the problem, while not good, ponied over root cause
c. 15 yo wasn't inside playing video games and was rippin skinny pedal down on dad's talon

priceless -

 

[lee]

they are a proud people and refuse to make any changes to a product unless you can document it, if you showed the engineer that designed the intake this thread he would say see stupid American didn't change his air filter he would NEVER admit it was a poor design.

Are you sure about that?
I'm guessing that engineer would look at your data and not be able to draw any conclusions.

But what would I know, I stuck with a relatively stock p500 thinking it would be bullet proof in the long run.
Sorry to hear about your issues but also, like @DRZRon1 glad to hear about your 15 year old getting out side.