Buyers remorse

[kidamer]

Well from another post, I have had my 2020 x in the shop for 30 days getting rear axles replaced both under 700 miles of 99% of farm use, slow rides around the acreage, its been to hatfield and mccoys once on green and blue trails, im an older rider so I dont do crazy stuff, well the rear end is popping once again after only 200 miles. Back to the shop for god only knows how long, I guess I was just expecting more from my honda, I know its not the fastest, quickest. But like toyota you expect a reliable machine. Just a vent we will see how it goes when it comes back yet again.

 

[HondaTech]

With the Scamdemic, parts have been hard to come by. I'd assume that was the wait on your machine.

On another note my GM has had a popping axle in his R model through the entire XC race season last year and a 12 hour endurance race and it never missed a lick.

The axle noise, while not normal, doesn't seem to indicate any imminent failure from what I've seen.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

@HondaTech

When we build spooled front axles for rock crawlers we time the front shafts so that the inner U joint yolks are in the same plane. This keeps the u joints in phase and stops any weird jerking or binding/popping when turning. Im wondering if the same thing would apply to the rear CV axles on the Talon. I wonder if timing the inner joints the same from left to right wouldn't fix this problem. 🤔

 

[HondaTech]

@HondaTech

When we build spooled front axles for rock crawlers we time the front shafts so that the inner U joint yolks are in the same plane. This keeps the u joints in phase and stops any weird jerking or binding/popping when turning. Im wondering if the same thing would apply to the rear CV axles on the Talon. I wonder if timing the inner joints the same from left to right wouldn't fix this problem. 🤔

Since there CV joints it shouldn't matter, and would be impossible since the boot covers the joint itself.

I've disassembled several "popping" axles and have yet to find an issue that would cause it.

Im beginnimg to wonder if the tolerances are too tight and causing binding issues.

My GMs car only does it when it sits for awhile. Then it pops a few times and quits.

 

[Dankathy]

Well from another post, I have had my 2020 x in the shop for 30 days getting rear axles replaced both under 700 miles of 99% of farm use, slow rides around the acreage, its been to hatfield and mccoys once on green and blue trails, im an older rider so I dont do crazy stuff, well the rear end is popping once again after only 200 miles. Back to the shop for god only knows how long, I guess I was just expecting more from my honda, I know its not the fastest, quickest. But like toyota you expect a reliable machine. Just a vent we will see how it goes when it comes back yet again.

Like many others, i have a popping noise coming from the rear "somewhere". Have looked for it repeatedly but failed to isolate it. I have quite a bit of experience with the sand cars, and identifying a bad cv is not unknown to me but no success here. I have been continuing to run it with the let it develop approach and i do think its getting worse. Fast forward to today (about 5000 miles since I first heard it) i decided to pull the shocks off to reseal them again. About 15000 total miles on the machine, 8000 or so since the last time the shocks were resealed. With the shocks off and the machine blocked up at ride height so that there is no pressure on anything i went through all of the joints, pivots etc. With a pry bar and found what i had come to expect- lots of joints with a small amount of movement but none really bad. I believe that whats going on is in a tight corner on hard surfaces everything binds up and then relaxes with a pop when the tires slip. Going to the 32's made this noise worse- lots of side wall flex. The worst joints i found were the front uppers. Not real suprising in that they are subjected to a lot of axial thrust. Was going to replace them and found that honda does not service these joints separately and i am not ready to do a wholesale replacement of all of the rear suspension arms. Hope the aftermarket addresses this before i have to start changing parts. Lots of money involved here real quick at $300 or so per arm. I am back to the let it develop thing. Wheel bearings show about 1/16in movement at the wheel, i am going to continue to run them. Just my findings, as always your milage may vary.

Please tell us about your maintenance schedule and what fluids you used? What have you repaired if anything. Your history could be helpful to us all who may someday put on a lot of miles.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

SATV sells replacement bushings for the factory front control arms along with greasable ball joints so that covers the complete front suspension.

On the R model the rear trailing arms have a ball joint at the hub that SATV sells a replacement for, and on the frame side of that arm it bolts to a replaceable joint that is its own unit. Replacement radius rods with better joints are made by tons of companies and lots of people run them already. The only arm on a Talon R that would have to be purchased to replace bushings would be the upper rear locating link. Again SATV sells one of these arms with their rear high clearance arm kit. It looks like it uses heims and those are replaceable.

An X model suspension isn't much different and actually has less bushings. Im not seeing why anyone needs to buy factory arms to replace bushings...

 

[HondaTech]

SATV sells replacement bushings for the factory front control arms along with greasable ball joints so that covers the complete front suspension.

On the R model the rear trailing arms have a ball joint at the hub that SATV sells a replacement for, and on the frame side of that arm it bolts to a replaceable joint that is its own unit. Replacement radius rods with better joints are made by tons of companies and lots of people run them already. The only arm on a Talon R that would have to be purchased to replace bushings would be the upper rear locating link. Again SATV sells one of these arms with their rear high clearance arm kit. It looks like it uses heims and those are replaceable.

An X model suspension isn't much different and actually has less bushings. Im not seeing why anyone needs to buy factory arms to replace bushings...

There are a few companies now making upper arms for the R with heims. When it comes to heims there are junk ones just like anything else.

We've gone with RaceCo radius rods for the rear and have their R A-arms for the front when we go back to full width.

The real masterpiece is their steering box. Honda is currently redesigning the stock one as well.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

There are a few companies now making upper arms for the R with heims. When it comes to heims there are junk ones just like anything else.

We've gone with RaceCo radius rods for the rear and have their R A-arms for the front when we go back to full width.

The real masterpiece is their steering box. Honda is currently redesigning the stock one as well.

I have some steering box questions for you if you don't mind. I'll pm you so I don't clutter up the thread.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Are the inner axle joints true CV's or are the tripod joints? If they are tripod joints me thinks the phasing thing might have some merit.

 

[PhilCod]

Well from another post, I have had my 2020 x in the shop for 30 days getting rear axles replaced both under 700 miles of 99% of farm use, slow rides around the acreage, its been to hatfield and mccoys once on green and blue trails, im an older rider so I dont do crazy stuff, well the rear end is popping once again after only 200 miles. Back to the shop for god only knows how long, I guess I was just expecting more from my honda, I know its not the fastest, quickest. But like toyota you expect a reliable machine. Just a vent we will see how it goes when it comes back yet again.

That is a tough situation. I'd be pissed too. I'm sure Honda will make it right with you, but after spending $18-20K on a machine you have expectations. Keep us posted on how Honda takes care of this.

 

[SpeedBuggy]

Since there CV joints it shouldn't matter, and would be impossible since the boot covers the joint itself.

I've disassembled several "popping" axles and have yet to find an issue that would cause it.

Im beginnimg to wonder if the tolerances are too tight and causing binding issues.

My GMs car only does it when it sits for awhile. Then it pops a few times and quits.

When my R had the popping it was on the driver side. My shop said the axle was slightly bent and causing binding when I tried to warranty it. It would only pop when cold and on pavement turning left. At least that is the only time I could hear it. I have since went to aftermarket axles and don’t have the problem. I’ve only got about 600 miles on the new axles so there’s that. It’s better than my buddies KRX who had the axles fall out of the transaxle while driving. Happened twice, once on each side. It has been in the shop for 6 weeks waiting on parts.

 

[HondaTech]

When my R had the popping it was on the driver side. My shop said the axle was slightly bent and causing binding when I tried to warranty it. It would only pop when cold and on pavement turning left. At least that is the only time I could hear it. I have since went to aftermarket axles and don’t have the problem. I’ve only got about 600 miles on the new axles so there’s that. It’s better than my buddies KRX who had the axles fall out of the transaxle while driving. Happened twice, once on each side. It has been in the shop for 6 weeks waiting on parts.

I've seen a few bent as well, with only 1 having any signs of what could've caused it.

I've heard Honda isn't replacing anymore axles with popping complaints.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

When my R had the popping it was on the driver side. My shop said the axle was slightly bent and causing binding when I tried to warranty it. It would only pop when cold and on pavement turning left. At least that is the only time I could hear it. I have since went to aftermarket axles and don’t have the problem. I’ve only got about 600 miles on the new axles so there’s that. It’s better than my buddies KRX who had the axles fall out of the transaxle while driving. Happened twice, once on each side. It has been in the shop for 6 weeks waiting on parts.

What brand axles are you running in your car?

 

[hondabob]

I have had popping mostly on pavement and more when its cold. Got 16,500 miles on it now and no problems. I think after its run enough to heat up the grease lubes better after it liquefies. I think its always best to compare it with another talon.

 

[Someguy]

I have a talon x. When you are talking about rear axle popping, what do you mean? Everyone is talking CV joints. The Talon has a solid spooled rear axle, meaning both axels turn the same all the time. So when you turn the inside wheel still turns the same as the outside wheel. A open diff allows the wheels to turn different speeds, and allows the inside wheel to turn slower. Mine jumps/ jerks when I turn, I thought this is normal. Is that what everyone is talking about? Or do I have a problem to? Help me out guys.

 

[Smitty335]

Since there CV joints it shouldn't matter, and would be impossible since the boot covers the joint itself.

I've disassembled several "popping" axles and have yet to find an issue that would cause it.

Im beginnimg to wonder if the tolerances are too tight and causing binding issues.

My GMs car only does it when it sits for awhile. Then it pops a few times and quits.

Heat = expansion?

 

[SpeedBuggy]

What brand axles are you running in your car?

The rhino 2.0. Please let me know if there are better ones. I’m sure they will need replacement at some point

 

[SpeedBuggy]

I have a talon x. When you are talking about rear axle popping, what do you mean? Everyone is talking CV joints. The Talon has a solid spooled rear axle, meaning both axels turn the same all the time. So when you turn the inside wheel still turns the same as the outside wheel. A open diff allows the wheels to turn different speeds, and allows the inside wheel to turn slower. Mine jumps/ jerks when I turn, I thought this is normal. Is that what everyone is talking about? Or do I have a problem to? Help me out guys.

It’s a mechanical popping sound or clicking separate from the inside tire scrub you feel with a locked rear end when turning

 

[SpeedBuggy]

I've seen a few bent as well, with only 1 having any signs of what could've caused it.

I've heard Honda isn't replacing anymore axles with popping complaints.

I would say that I am hard on the car overall. I also maintain it well. There were no outward signs of damage on the axles. Only rock roost chips. We’re not hard core rock crawling or where the axle would come in direct contact with sharp boulders or anything I am aware of. I did cross up a high speed jump and land at an angle with the drivers rear taking the weight of the landing. So much so I was surprised it didn’t roll. It was months before the popping. I have been reading about racers needing to gusset the upper a arms and rear trailing arms to keep them from bending. It would make sense to me if these parts are flexing it could damage the axle internally.

 

[Someguy]

It’s a mechanical popping sound or clicking separate from the inside tire scrub you feel with a locked rear end when turning

Ok thanks.