Downhill holdback?

[Boltzie42]

I'm looking to purchase a UTV in the next month and was considering the Viking and XP900, and wasn't aware of the Pioneer. My wife is all for the 700-4 because we have two children and this style appeals to her, whereas I was looking forward to a UTV that I could work. I'm not one for pushing an ATV/UTV fast, so the Razr-style UTV's are out. I like the XP900 for general riding, but can't stand how they freewheel going down hills. The Polaris guys say to feather the throttle and break at the same time, but I'm used to my old trusty 450ES, put it in 1st and crawl down the hill. It has what Honda calls shift mapping with the 'cruise' and 'sport' maps/ranges. The Viking has a H-L range which I like and really wish Honda would've incorporated into the Pioneer. My neighbor has a Rhino and it handles uphill/downhill hills with ease. I live in eastern Ohio and we have real hills.

Since I will not have the chance to try a Pioneer out on hills, I would appreciate any feedback from the new Pioneer owners in regards to how the UTV holds back going down hills or if the Pioneer upshifts as the UTV is traversing downhill. This is where I feel Honda should've given the driver the H-L option for this UTV.

Thanks.

 

[Admin]

 

[red4life]

I believe my pioneer has a perfect amount of engine braking. Coming from my first sxs, a rzr 800, I love the fact there is no low range lever. Nothing extra to think about. No stopping completely to shift. The tranny just knows when low is needed and works perfectly on any terrain. Down hills it also knows what gear to stay in. Of course some braking is needed depending on the steepness of the hill. Low/high ranges are needed on the belt driven models because they do not have the variable transmission. And yes, you do need to feather the throttle and brake going down hills with the polaris. Check out my review of the viking if you are thinking about buying one. Just a thought

 

[Swamper]

I agree I think the compression braking is just about right. Any more and it would cause unwanted jerking during downshifting on flat ground. If you have kids you definitely want to look into the 700-4.

 

[red4life]

I don't have kids but I bought the 4 anyways... well worth the money to bring your family and friends on rides. I have had 5 adults in the bed standing hanging on to the roll cage while hitting up campfires throughout the nneighborhood. Im sure thats exactly what honda had in mind

 

[Swamper]

Yep that's about 1000 lbs. LOL!!

 

[Boltzie42]

4WD help downhill?

Does it help to shift into 4WD before tracking down a hill? Like I said, I have an old 450ES that is full-time 4WD. I really like the fact that I can put my ATV in 1st or 2nd and crawl down steep terrain. I switch ATV's with a Sportsman for about an hour and the independant suspension on the Sportsman had me re-thinking my 450ES.....until we started to hit some hills. Now if this Pioneer had a selectable shift like the Rincon, that would be the ticket, along with power steering.

 

[Swamper]

4WD will only help the engine slow your speeds if the incline is steep enough to cause the rear wheels to slide. In general, I think the Pioneer engine braking is less than your 450ES for two reasons - one being that you have more weight per hp in the Pioneer.. and the other being that first gear is not as low a ratio on the Pioneer as it is on the 450ES. The Pioneer shifts into second gear at 13 mph whereas you are likely shifting to second at about 5 mph (guessing) on the 450ES.

 

[DG Rider]

Swamper pretty much nailed it.

Due to the nature of the auto-style 3 speed, first gear can be ( and is ) higher than on your 450ES ( i own a 450S, BTW ). I'd guess and say engine braking would be about like second or third on your 450: It's there, but it is just taller gearing than you're used to in the super-low 1st.

At least it has it, unlike the Polaris....and to all 4 wheels, unlike ANY Polaris.
The Yamaha's probably have better engine braking in low range. Coincidentally, i recently drove a Rhino for the first time and my first impression was that low range wasn't particularly low, so the engine braking may not be as great as you would imagine...certainly not in high range.

You also said uphills. Google torque converter and how it works to see why a Pioneer ( or Big Red or Rincon ) doesn't need a low range to pull big...though it will certainly feel somewhat different than the low mechanical gearing in your 450. The miracle of torque multiplication! If that isn't enough, there is a vid on Youtube of a BR pulling 6000LBS of hay to convince you.

 

[Mandride]

I just tested this on mine and at a 45 degree incline with 400lbs in the vehicle it has no issue with engine breaking. Vastly better than my Rincon. I thought they pretty close to the same engine but apparently they have made some good additions to the engine and transmission.

 

[DG Rider]

I just tested this on mine and at a 45 degree incline with 400lbs in the vehicle it has no issue with engine breaking. Vastly better than my Rincon. I thought they pretty close to the same engine but apparently they have made some good additions to the engine and transmission.

BR/Pioneer is also lower geared than Rincon. The hot set up for the Rincon mud guys is to retrofit the BR/Pioneer gears to turn bigger tires.

 

[Boltzie42]

That's good to know, Mandride. I got to test ride the 700-2. It shifted pretty hard on the upshift, but that may have been due to no warmup. There weren't any hills to go down to simulate that, but your description does a good job of what I was looking for. Once the aftermarket people start making accessories for this UTV, it should be pretty good. I'm really looking for a stereo, taller a-arm guards, winch, roof and some 26" or 27" tires.

red4life: How do I find your review on the Viking?

 

[red4life]

My review is at the 'other sxs brands' thread.

 

[Bugnbrian]

In my experience with a Big Red, and now with the Pioneer, the holdback on downhill runs is as perfect feeling as any machine I have driven. I have been on Polaris 4 wheelers when the rear tires locked during holdback and that got a bit tricky, but if you pay attention to the conditions and remember what swamper said about 4x4, you will be fine in the Pioneer. Don't forget the brake pedal is there when you need it and The Pioneer brake system is phenomenal. You get quick strong braking that is smooth and predictable and you won't need too many miles to begin feeling confident. As I have admitted before, the only issue I had with downhills is hard upshifts when I get to a place where I want to accelerate but I have started learning how to smooth those out. The Pioneer is a very intuative ride and you quickly learn how to control your gear selection by just feeling it.

 

[Mandride]

I went to the mountains this weekend and put 50 hard miles on it. IT does a fantastic job with engine braking is the best I can say. if we had a 4 low it would be a crawler! I am very pleased with this after the run I did. I had one drop that was about 80 degrees, yes I did for about 20 feet into a creek and then back out and it handled it very well. This vehicle is awesome. IT made my wife pucker up as she calls it.