P700 P700 second gear isn’t working

[murfsiphone]

Have a 2017 pioneer 700-2 deluxe. Bought it with 500 miles. It was shifting a bit hard so I decided to change the oil and filter with all Honda stuff and the air filter. It got smoother but second gear started to seem like it wasn’t engaging all the way. I did another oil change just in case. Nothing. It got worse and second gear was almost non existent. 1st and 3rd work perfectly fine using the paddle shifters.

I ohm tested the shift solenoids, in spec. I continuity tested from the PCM to the solenoid connectors to see if there’s a break in the wire, all good. I pressure tested the engine side and transmission side, 114psi at 5k, in spec. Decided to swap out shift solenoids and give it one more oil change (has 850 miles now). Just got done and second gear is non existent. Just revs in second. 1st and 3rd are perfectly smooth and plenty of power.

I thought at one time it was a clogged pick up screen, but it pressure tested fine. I’m at a loss. Any help is appreciated. I’m about to give up and have a dealer rake me over with parts they’ll throw at it.

Thanks

 

[Admin]

 

[Hello_Darkness]

If it's just 2nd, I'd say the 2nd clutch is smoked.

Most likely from previous owner doing te majority of riding in 2nd, maybe at slow enough speed to slip constantly.

Have you checked oil pressure at the clutch outlets while in those gears?

 

[murfsiphone]

I have not. My guess is if they all have good pressure, the clutch is smoked. But if second doesn’t have any pressure what could it be?

 

[murfsiphone]

Well…. I decided to take action. Dealer said to replace second gear would be $2500 minimum in just labor. So I could expect $3k or more. Pulled the motor. Split the case and this was the result…… second gear is burned to a crisp. 800 miles on this machine. Previous owner must have plowed in automatic and when he hit 10mph….. it shifted, pushing all that weight in second. Or it was always junk. Who knows. Pulling the motor and splitting the case wasn’t horrible, but it was more than I wanted.

I purchased a whole new 2/3 gear for $150. And a gasket kit for $100. So I’m $250 into it and I’m happy. It’s back together and running perfect. I also replaced the infamous pickup screen. It wasn’t clogged, but there was some crud in it.

 

[murfsiphone]

Oh, and if anyone is wondering if you can split the case without taking off both sides…. You can’t. On the stater side there is one lousy bolt holding the case together

 

[906UP]

Well…. I decided to take action. Dealer said to replace second gear would be $2500 minimum in just labor. So I could expect $3k or more. Pulled the motor. Split the case and this was the result…… second gear is burned to a crisp. 800 miles on this machine. Previous owner must have plowed in automatic and when he hit 10mph….. it shifted, pushing all that weight in second. Or it was always junk. Who knows. Pulling the motor and splitting the case wasn’t horrible, but it was more than I wanted.

I purchased a whole new 2/3 gear for $150. And a gasket kit for $100. So I’m $250 into it and I’m happy. It’s back together and running perfect. I also replaced the infamous pickup screen. It wasn’t clogged, but there was some crud in it.



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Well done

 

[murfsiphone]

And everything can be done with normal tools minus 2 things. The torque converter needs this puller:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08K752WHH?tag=sxsweb24-20

And this splitter helped for sure:

Amazon.com

 

[DRZRon1]

outstanding !!!

 

[DG Rider]

Well…. I decided to take action. Dealer said to replace second gear would be $2500 minimum in just labor. So I could expect $3k or more. Pulled the motor. Split the case and this was the result…… second gear is burned to a crisp. 800 miles on this machine. Previous owner must have plowed in automatic and when he hit 10mph….. it shifted, pushing all that weight in second. Or it was always junk. Who knows. Pulling the motor and splitting the case wasn’t horrible, but it was more than I wanted.

I purchased a whole new 2/3 gear for $150. And a gasket kit for $100. So I’m $250 into it and I’m happy. It’s back together and running perfect. I also replaced the infamous pickup screen. It wasn’t clogged, but there was some crud in it.



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I know you already said it's running beautifully...but id definitely pay close attention to those shifts, and if they ain't perfect I'd start digging again before it smokes it again. Other than during the act of shifting, nothing should be able to get the clutch to slip (unless it's just worn out). That's what the torque converter is there for. That's assuming you're not running a 100hp shot of nitrous, of course LOL!

Congratulations!

 

[Hello_Darkness]

I know you already said it's running beautifully...but id definitely pay close attention to those shifts, and if they ain't perfect I'd start digging again before it smokes it again. Other than during the act of shifting, nothing should be able to get the clutch to slip (unless it's just worn out). That's what the torque converter is there for. That's assuming you're not running a 100hp shot of nitrous, of course LOL!

Congratulations!

I had a new unit like thid once that wouldn't shift into 3rd sometimes or would act like 3rd was slipping.

Turns out an O-ring that separates oil pressure from the 2nd and 3rd clutches had been pinched at the factory and finally broke. Engaging both at the same time.

 

[DG Rider]

I had a new unit like thid once that wouldn't shift into 3rd sometimes or would act like 3rd was slipping.

Turns out an O-ring that separates oil pressure from the 2nd and 3rd clutches had been pinched at the factory and finally broke. Engaging both at the same time.

Exactly. Smoked clutch could have been just a symptom of another problem.

I confess...sometimes stuff like that drives me crazy on the cars I'm working on.

 

[Hello_Darkness]

Exactly. Smoked clutch could have been just a symptom of another problem.

I confess...sometimes stuff like that drives me crazy on the cars I'm working on.

The clutch was the symptom, what the cause was is the real diagnostic nightmare sometimes