Pioneer locking up and coming to complete stop.

[Paul]

Hi, I am new to the Forum and am looking for some help.

The 700 was working great and then after getting it back from the dealer with first service and tracks and driving off and on for three days it all
of a sudden started to lose power and come to a stop. The machine now only goes about 100 yrds. before locking up and the engine shuts off. No engine malfunction or over heating indicators come on. I jacked up the machine and can spin all tracks, OK. When accelerating from a stop, it takes off OK and then labors quickly and comes to a abrupt stop shutting off the engine. The more I push down on the gas pedal the quicker it locks up. It takes a bit of turning over to start again.

I store the Honda in a steel building that is heated with a wood stove so nothing is freezing up. I take it out and let it idle for 5-10 minutes to warm up before using ( 1-2 bars are highlighted on heat indicator). The emergency brake is not stuck on and releases OK (checked connection at brake).

Dealer not available for a couple of weeks to look at it and does not know what is wrong. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Admin]

 

[ohanacreek]

There seems to be a common issue with the muffler on the earlier production runs.

 

[DG Rider]

Have you checked the oil?

 

[Paul]

Have you checked the oil?

Thanks but yes the oil level is OK
Paul

 

[DG Rider]

Have you checked the oil?

Thanks but yes the oil level is OK
Paul

You said it "locks up". A stalling engine ( from back pressure ) doesn't "lock up".

And why would a dealer not be available for a couple of weeks? Are they that busy?

 

[Hondasxs]

Paul,
Do you have the same issue with revving it up high in (N)?

There is a possibility that a baffle plate further inside the muffler has come loose causing your issues. You issues really does sound like the muffler problem.

As higher RPM's create more pressure the motor will shut down because it is unable to exhaust the gas.
If it runs ok at 1/4 throttle, and has trouble over 1/2 throttle then I would be willing to bet that's it.

But, it would do the same thing if there was a timing issue too. Such as a bad cam.

 

[fishin2Dmax]

I think HondaSXS has nailed the probable cause.

With an exhaust restriction, it wouldn't take much time (while under load) to build up a enough back pressure to prevent the exhaust gases from exiting valve / cylinder head and therefore mess up the air / fuel mixture on the combustion compression cycle - shutting down the motor.
This exhaust spark arrestor / baffle plate failure is starting to become a bit concerning and being reported more and more. Honda should look into this and do the right thing (replace mufflers) and recall the early production models- if an issue is found to exist .

 

[Paul]

There seems to be a common issue with the muffler on the earlier production runs.

Thanks. I will look at the exhaust aqain.

Paul

 

[Paul]

Thanks guys, I will recheck the exhaust when accelerating with someone else.

Paul

 

[Paul]

THANKS TO ALL THE RESPONSES. THE GUYS WHO SAID IT WAS A EXHAUST ISSUE," YOU WERE CORRECT ".

I took the three bolts off the back of the muffler and pulled out the spark arrestor which was squashed and torn at the end. It was difficult to pull out. I looked at the round plate inside with a flashlight and with a screw driver could move it all over the place (it was broken off). I started the pioneer and put the pedal down and the engine did not labor or cut out but the plate was spun around inside. This plate was pushing up against the spark arrestor under pressure and stalling the engine.

Dealer has put a rush order on a new muffler and hope to have it installed in the next couple of days. He will come and install in my steel building as his dealership is 1 1\2 hrs. from here.

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE,
PAUL

PS- The dealer had contacted Honda previous to me finding out it was a exhaust issue and Honda did not know why the machine was
stalling out. Makes you wounder if Honda does not want to admit they have an exhaust issue and have a recall ??

 

[Hondasxs]

Paul,
Thats good news it was not something inside the motor. Hopefully the dealer can get you a new one very soon.
Also, If you are able, could you snap some good pictures. We want to see more details of the problem.
If not, thats ok.
Thanks.

 

[fishin2Dmax]

Paul,
Great to hear you found the problem. It's interesting that dealers claim Honda has released a new version of the Pioneer muffler, so it does make we wonder why they made an improved version yet haven't acknowledge to its dealers or customers there is a potential problem with the original installed mufflers?

 

[Paul]

Hi again guys.

The owner of the dealership came up within two days on the day he received the new muffler (1 1/2 hr drive) and installed the new muffler and everything is working OK.

Every one on the site talks about a new and improved muffler but I do not see any difference between the two on the outside or on the inside with the spark arrester removed.

The dealer did mention that Honda US and Canada do not seem to be relaying all problems or solutions with each other.

Paul

 

[fishin2Dmax]

Hi again guys.

The owner of the dealership came up within two days on the day he received the new muffler (1 1/2 hr drive) and installed the new muffler and everything is working OK.

Every one on the site talks about a new and improved muffler but I do not see any difference between the two on the outside or on the inside with the spark arrester removed.

The dealer did mention that Honda US and Canada do not seem to be relaying all problems or solutions with each other.

Paul

It does make me wonder if the "new" mufflers are actually the same and subject to this happening again ?

 

[Dick]

Paul[/quote]It does make me wonder if the "new" mufflers are actually the same and subject to this happening again ?[/quote]

I did not notice any difference in the new one they put on mine except is seemed to be a little different in color but that could be just me. I would think the only difference would be in manufacturing process after the problem was discovered EG. more or larger welds.

 

[ohanacreek]

Could just be that the welds were not correct ... Not deep enough or the surface wasn't prepped... Wrong gas flow... Weld may look same to layperson from outside but the actually bond may have sucked.

 

[Dick]

ohanacreek you have a done a little welding in your day!

The thing I hate about warranty work is I can't get my nose in there. I did have a long talk with the mechanic.

So what we know so far is something is breaking inside the muffler (probably a weld) and causing something to come loose and spin and/or dislodge. The spark arrester is secondary damage and at that point most will realize something is wrong. So if your spark arrester is damaged or you hear a rattle you defiantly have the issue. Is this causing minor loses in power without signs is yet to be determined.

I am sure HondaSXS will get to the bottom of this!

 

[Hondasxs]

I am sure HondaSXS will get to the bottom of this!

Would like to try. But I need some detailed pictures. My 2 closest dealers have not seen the issue yet.

 

[Dick]

HondaSXS I don't see why someone like yourself who has a big following of Pioneer owners couldn't get direct access to someone at Honda to answer a few questions on our behalf? It would benefit everyone. Probably be just a matter of getting a hold of the right nut.

Maybe they would even invite you on some of their promotional runs so we can get some first hand reports!!!

 

[truckracer]

Interesting...