P500 Ride height and alignment after mods

[crewcabrob]

Hi all,

Im working my way through a minor issue after new tires, shocks an front control arms.

My current ride height measurements are: front 9.25” and rear 10.5”.
Stock on the Honda site says 8.5”

My tires are 27.5” tall per the Maxxis website. Stock tire are supposed to be 24” tall.

So, after new a-arms and shocks I should be around a minimum of 10.25”. The rear I suspect is pretty close. The front not so much.

I can adjust the preload of the new Elkas to match the rear, but should I load up weight in the seat to simulate the weight of my wife and I before t make the adjustments?

Also, each change in ride height at the front changes the alignment, specifically the toe. Does this also happen with the stock a-arms?

I might need an old-timer here to help me sort this out a bit. I don’t have as much time for trial and error as I did a couple weeks ago getting ready for my Wyoming trip.

Rob

 

[WagginTail]

Make sure you drive it around a little after you make adjustments so the suspension can settle in. When you get out of it rock it side to side also. When I was adjusting preload and alignment on my 1000 I kept noticing the driver side was a little lower than passenger side. Finally figured out my 225 pounds was squatting the driver side and when I got out the suspension wouldn't go all the way back up. Hope that makes sense. Then check your measurements.
I didn't add weight to the seat or bed when making my adjustments. Adjust to what you want then after you take it for a ride you can always tweak it a little if you need to.
Good luck

 

[crewcabrob]

Thanks for the advice. I see that the alignment is a moving target at this point. I will try to get her close and then see what happens.

For those that have a stock p520/500, if you measure the lowest point on the front of the machine, does it match the lowest point on the rear of the machine?

Thanks,

Rob

 

[crewcabrob]

I had some time to work on the ride height adjustments. I was able to even up the ride height front to rear and even resolved my long-standing issue with my passenger side sitting lower when empty.

I had to spin the preload adjusters 4.5 turns on the passenger front shock, 3.5 turns on the front driver shock and 1 full turn on the rear passenger shock to even things up. Now it sits level. I ended up with just s hair more than 10.25" of ground clearance.

I'm going to do another Hill Billy alignment this week. I also want to get a full load on the seats and measure the height and alignment.

Rob

 

[Splorin]

I’ll measure mine later this week. Completely different set up but as a reference.......

 

[crewcabrob]

I’ll measure mine later this week. Completely different set up but as a reference.......

Thanks! I would just like to hear if others sit lower in the front with the stock shocks on.

 

[crewcabrob]

Hi all,

I just wanted to share a little more information on my suspension mods with a load that simulates driver passenger and minimal weight in the bed of the P520.

As I previously mentioned in this thread, I measured my ride height after installing the new tires and new elka stage one shocks. The math held true based on the OEM ride height, and the addition of the new 27 inch tires I added. They actually measure out at 27 1/2 inches tall. I ended up with 10 1/4 inches of clearance under my new skid plate.

The Experiment:

I went to Menards and picked up some supplies to help with my experiment. I grabbed 50 pounds of bird feed that I immediately threw in the back of the pioneer. I also grabbed ten, 40 pound bags of water softener salt. I put pretty much all 400 pounds of salt where my wife and I would normally sit on the seat of the pioneer and two bags on the floor boards. My wife and I don’t weigh combined 400 pounds but I assume most of the time we’re going to have a cooler of beer and a dog or two with us that would make up the difference. The results were pretty crazy. And yes, after loading all of the weight in the pioneer at various places. I did roll the Pioneer back-and-forth to settle out the suspension.

Unloaded: 10.25” at the front and rear measured from my garage floor to the lowest point of the skid plate.
Loaded as described above: 9.25” in the rear and 8.25” in the front.

I then took all the weight out of the passenger area and put all 450 pounds into the bed of the pioneer. The front of the pioneer then measure just a hair shy of 10 inches from the garage floor to the lowest part of the skid plate. The rear of the pioneer than dropped down so there was less than 8” of clearance.

A definite side effect of having all of the weight in the side-by-side like this was the front end alignment. When I had most of the weights in the passenger compartment which emulates having my wife and I on the seat, you could for sure tell that it created a lot of negative camber and negative toe for the front wheels. The rear suspension seemed normal other than it had sagged some. You may not be able to see the camber and toe changes based on the pictures. It is pronounced in person

Based on my experiment, I’m definitely cranking up the preload on all four shocks. I have a few more measurements to take when the pioneer is unloaded to understand how much sag there is in the suspension when it is sitting at normal ride height. The suspension should be compressed somewhere between 20 to 30% for optimal riding conditions. So now it becomes a game for me to figure out how much I need to adjust the preload on the shocks to get The same ride height with my wife and I while sitting on the seat.


Rob

 

[crewcabrob]

Looking back on my Wyoming trip, I had bottomed out the front of the P520 quite a few times. Other than doing the hillbilly alignment, I put all the parts on and didn't really think about adjusting the shocks.

After getting back I checked the ground clearance and found that unloaded, the front was only a little over 9". To extrapolate at bit, if the ground clearance was 9" unloaded, and it sagged another 2", I would only have 7" of clearance with my wife and I in the buggy. No wonder I bottomed out the suspension more than a few times.

Don't get me wrong, I suspect it will squat some with a load on it. Some from the suspension and likely some from the tires. But given my findings here, I'm going to start measuring the shock movement per suspension movement. They are not going to be 1 for 1, but a ratio.

For those that have gotten Elka shocks or even Walker Evans, the preload from the factory was way off from the information I provided them. I suspect I have quite a bit of adjusting to do this weekend to get my preload set for nothing more than my wife and I.

Rob

 

[Yomama101]

Looking back on my Wyoming trip, I had bottomed out the front of the P520 quite a few times. Other than doing the hillbilly alignment, I put all the parts on and didn't really think about adjusting the shocks.

After getting back I checked the ground clearance and found that unloaded, the front was only a little over 9". To extrapolate at bit, if the ground clearance was 9" unloaded, and it sagged another 2", I would only have 7" of clearance with my wife and I in the buggy. No wonder I bottomed out the suspension more than a few times.

Don't get me wrong, I suspect it will squat some with a load on it. Some from the suspension and likely some from the tires. But given my findings here, I'm going to start measuring the shock movement per suspension movement. They are not going to be 1 for 1, but a ratio.

For those that have gotten Elka shocks or even Walker Evans, the preload from the factory was way off from the information I provided them. I suspect I have quite a bit of adjusting to do this weekend to get my preload set for nothing more than my wife and I.

Rob

Great write up. After my first lengthy ride with my Elkas I increased the front preload by about 70% from Elkas factory settings. It would bottom-out coming off ledges and water-bars at speed. The rear seemed good even loaded down with the usual cooler, tools etc. Still haven't tried the new setting yet. I carry the tools with me so I can tune the suspension on the trail.

 

[crewcabrob]

Yesterday, before I started to move mulch and rock around the house, I turned my preload collars 3 full turns to increase the preload. I wasn't able to get a good read on how much it changed the ride height or how much the suspension compressed. It will take a bit more work I'm guessing.

Rob

 

[crewcabrob]

Hi all,

I got out and I just did some more pre-load into my front shocks. I chose to leave the rear ones alone.

As mentioned before, I already adjusted preload on the front ones to the tune of about four turns just to get the buggy to set Even on level ground. I just got done adding three more full turns to both front shocks. That seems to compensate pretty well for my weight and my wife’s weight while we are riding. The shocks still compress a little bit, but some of that is tires and a small portion is the shocks.

The first picture is the left side, and it shows about 15 threads showing. The interesting fact is the second picture is also showing roughly 15 threads. So I should’ve checked my shocks to see how they were sent from the factory.

 

[crewcabrob]

I really didn’t notice any difference while riding on the streets and off-road it is may be a little firmer but certainly not like it was with the stock front shocks. I’m pretty content with where it’s at right now and I’m just going to continue to watch and evaluate as I go. I ran up and down curbs in the neighborhood next to me and went through a construction site or two and the suspension still felt very compliant.

so for those of you that have Elka shocks, I would recommend you start with roughly 10 threads showing after adjusting the collars down. Once again remember, my wife and I really only weigh 350 pounds combined. But the weight of the added accessories on the front end certainly come in to play. The weight of a winch and the mounting plate along with auxiliary lights and power steering have to make some difference.

Rob