P700 2015 Pionner 700, Clutch slipping. Need help

[HondaTech]

Update on this in case it helps, I checked the oil line pressure and it’s crazy high. It was like 90 psi at idle and with any throttle goes up to past 150. Manual says 114 @ 5k rpm. I’m thinking the valve body must have a blockage or something?

They are always higher than spec. As long as they dont drop below the specification by alot then it should be fine.

 

[Admin]

 

[henchmachine]

P700 - Transmission problem

I am new on the 700 side as i have a 1000-5. My buddy has a 700-4 with 216hrs. The problem is when you put it in gear, forward or reverse and push thr gas pedal and it's like it locks up. The engine is under a load and wont move. You can let it idle and put it in gear and kinda lunges in either...

hondasxs.com

Here's that other thread. No solution, but I tagged the OP. May not even be the same problem...

Its been a while since I've messed with the pioneer but today I decided to take a look at things again and try to pinpoint some diagnostic.

I believe what you're saying with the cross shifting is true. The a/c solenoid that controls the creep seems to be functioning when I test it off of the machine just hooking it to the battery. I hear the click like the manual says and see the valve moving but it doesn't move much. According \ to the Rincon manual I got the valve should be on [closed] to prevent creep. When on the machine it creeps quite a bit, regardless of the emergency valve. I've cleaned the valve body twice and I don't thank is the issue.

When I screw the emergency valve in, nothing seems to change. The oil pressure to the first clutch pack is still there and there is nothing on the second clutch except when it hits the point of trying to shift up. When it tries to shift I see a momentary shot of oil psi going to the second clutch but then drops back to 0 when the engine does the 'bog down'. On the first clutch the oil psi remains constant.

I thought the emergency valve was the end all when it came to this trans. When screwed in the machine is forced into 2nd and stays there? I'm wondering why when I screw it in the machine still rides in first and tries to shift. I see no difference in the emergency valve in or out except the 'bogging down' when it tries to shift is just a bit more violent. The machine still drives around under 12 mph just fine, like its still just riding in first gear.


Any idea on what I should do next? I'm assuming I'll just pull the motor but any sort of direction would be appreciated from anyone.

Thanks

 

[DG Rider]

Its been a while since I've messed with the pioneer but today I decided to take a look at things again and try to pinpoint some diagnostic.

I believe what you're saying with the cross shifting is true. The a/c solenoid that controls the creep seems to be functioning when I test it off of the machine just hooking it to the battery. I hear the click like the manual says and see the valve moving but it doesn't move much. According \ to the Rincon manual I got the valve should be on [closed] to prevent creep. When on the machine it creeps quite a bit, regardless of the emergency valve. I've cleaned the valve body twice and I don't thank is the issue.

When I screw the emergency valve in, nothing seems to change. The oil pressure to the first clutch pack is still there and there is nothing on the second clutch except when it hits the point of trying to shift up. When it tries to shift I see a momentary shot of oil psi going to the second clutch but then drops back to 0 when the engine does the 'bog down'. On the first clutch the oil psi remains constant.

I thought the emergency valve was the end all when it came to this trans. When screwed in the machine is forced into 2nd and stays there? I'm wondering why when I screw it in the machine still rides in first and tries to shift. I see no difference in the emergency valve in or out except the 'bogging down' when it tries to shift is just a bit more violent. The machine still drives around under 12 mph just fine, like its still just riding in first gear.


Any idea on what I should do next? I'm assuming I'll just pull the motor but any sort of direction would be appreciated from anyone.

Thanks

The EV is supposed to mechanically bypass to 2nd. Do you have all the solenoids unplugged? Try that with the EV in?

If there is no 2nd pressure at that point, something has to be blocked or leaking badly.

 

[henchmachine]

The EV is supposed to mechanically bypass to 2nd. Do you have all the solenoids unplugged? Try that with the EV in?

If there is no 2nd pressure at that point, something has to be blocked or leaking badly.

I should have tried it with the solenoids unplugged, but I’ve just not pulled the engine and have it on my table.


tomorrow I’ll go through and retrace my step and see if there’s any blockages. I guess just blowing air through them is the best way?

 

[henchmachine]

The EV is supposed to mechanically bypass to 2nd. Do you have all the solenoids unplugged? Try that with the EV in?

If there is no 2nd pressure at that point, something has to be blocked or leaking badly.

I pulled the engine today and started with looking into the front cover. I think I found the issue (knock on wood). I looked at the first gear clutch pack and the last clutch fiber plate was distorted. The teeth were all bent in all the way around. some discoloration on the plates as well. I’m assuming this was from the last install and I didn’t get the inner ring quite lined up for something. I’ll post some photos down below…

note the color of the first, top fiber where it sits right up against the top pressure plate, rest are pretty brunt.

I’m going to order all new plates and fibers and hopefully is good to go!

 

[HondaTech]

You have to set Initial clearance on each clutch. The end plate thickeness is used to position the clearance within the specification.

The plate you have now should have a way to identify it. You can use it with new fibers and steels to see what your clearance is and then get whatever size you need to be in spec.

 

[henchmachine]

Well I got the new discs and plate and put them in. Finally reassembled everything and it all went together right. The problem was putting that 1st clutch pack on is quite tricky, having to line up like 4 different splines. My issue last time was the inner hub on the clutch got caught in the last disc. It’s hard to tell because it’s behind everything.

ultimately I threw the engine back in and got her started up. Everything finally works now. Shifts Up to third just fine. Runs like new. Been a long ride but I’m glad it’s finally done. Thanks for everyone’s help!

 

[sam61]

I know it's been a while since this thread was active but it has been a big help if any of you are still available I have some more questions. The first is the cap nuts on cylinder head left hand threads?

 

[Hello_Darkness]

I know it's been a while since this thread was active but it has been a big help if any of you are still available I have some more questions. The first is the cap nuts on cylinder head left hand threads?

The only left hand threads on any honda engine are usually clutch nuts. The ones that are will be marked with a an arrow.

The head stud nuts are regular threads

 

[sam61]

Thanks they were really tight, didn't want to twist something off I had to replace