P1000 Badlands Apex 5500 winch wiring - 2024 Pioneer 1000-3

[GGreen]

I'm installing a Badlands Apex 5500lb winch in my 2024 1000-3. My question is about the wiring.

The Badlands instructions show yellow and blue cables from the winch to the solenoid - no problem. Hot/red from the solenoid then goes to a quick disconnect/shutoff switch they provide, then hot/red continues from the quick disconnect/shutoff switch to the Pos. terminal on the battery. Black cable obviously goes from the negative terminal on the solenoid to the negative terminal on the battery.

I've already ordered the single-wire pigtail so I can easily pick up key-on power and will wire the hot lead from the cabled remote harness to that, the two lugs from the cabled remote harness to the solenoid, ground to the solenoid, and the supplied connector to the supplied dash rocker switch, so that covers my handheld cabled remote.

My question is this:
Do I need anything else to protect the system and where would it get wired in? I'm not clear, following the Badlands instructions, where this setup is fused, or if it's fused at all. What protects the winch in the event of an overload?

Thanks very much!

 

[Admin]

 

[dweber23tr]

The winch itself is not fused at all, through the solenoid it it connected directly to the battery. The controls for the solenoid should be fused, easiest to install to an auxiliary fuse panel.

 

[Robobrainiac]

When I installed the Apex on my Teryx there was not a fuse included. I used a 120amp car stereo fuse block and fuse between the battery and disconnect. Place the fuse as close to the battery as possible.

Always leave the battery disconnect in the off position unless you are currently operating the winch. When it comes to the wireless winches they can be triggered by other remotes or frequencies causing in and out function of the cable. You don't want your hand stuck somewhere in an unsafe manner and you don't want to come out to your machine finding it in a situation where it has swallowed its own bumper into the winch plate.

 

[GGreen]

When I installed the Apex on my Teryx there was not a fuse included. I used a 120amp car stereo fuse block and fuse between the battery and disconnect. Place the fuse as close to the battery as possible.

Always leave the battery disconnect in the off position unless you are currently operating the winch. When it comes to the wireless winches they can be triggered by other remotes or frequencies causing in and out function of the cable. You don't want your hand stuck somewhere in an unsafe manner and you don't want to come out to your machine finding it in a situation where it has swallowed its own bumper into the winch plate.

Good idea - thanks! Ordered a 100amp breaker. I'll install it between the disconnect and the batt. Thanks!

 

[Hondasxs]

Good idea - thanks! Ordered a 100amp breaker. I'll install it between the disconnect and the batt. Thanks!

100amps is not enough.
Winch will pull 100 on an easy day, I recommend 250 minimum, and it still may pop if you stall it out. Check specs for max pull.

And that's why most don't use winch fuses, way too much power draw...
And I'm sorry, but if you have a winch main power wire short in a PIoneer 1000..... With such short runs... you have other problems in your life. lol.

Not many winch manufacturers recommend fused main lines.
My SuperWinch had a self-resetting fuse, which became a burden.
It always cut out when I needed it the most.

 

[Hondasxs]

Update... You need a 300 amp fuse.

 

[GGreen]

100amps is not enough.
Winch will pull 100 on an easy day, I recommend 250 minimum, and it still may pop if you stall it out. Check specs for max pull.

And that's why most don't use winch fuses, way too much power draw...
And I'm sorry, but if you have a winch main power wire short in a PIoneer 1000..... With such short runs... you have other problems in your life. lol.

Not many winch manufacturers recommend fused main lines.
My SuperWinch had a self-resetting fuse, which became a burden.
It always cut out when I needed it the most.

Hmmmm....now I'm thinking I'm back to just installing it the way the manufacturer recommends and devil take the hindmost. I don't use the winch all that much, usually for pulling loads of a few hundred pounds up a hill (think small trees in a gully.) I had a dual battery setup on my last one and it was way more trouble and expense than it was worth after the name-brand isolator failed.

 

[Robobrainiac]

100amps is not enough.
Winch will pull 100 on an easy day, I recommend 250 minimum, and it still may pop if you stall it out. Check specs for max pull.

And that's why most don't use winch fuses, way too much power draw...
And I'm sorry, but if you have a winch main power wire short in a PIoneer 1000..... With such short runs... you have other problems in your life. lol.

Not many winch manufacturers recommend fused main lines.
My SuperWinch had a self-resetting fuse, which became a burden.
It always cut out when I needed it the most.

Update... You need a 300 amp fuse.
View attachment 450248

Hmmmm....now I'm thinking I'm back to just installing it the way the manufacturer recommends and devil take the hindmost. I don't use the winch all that much, usually for pulling loads of a few hundred pounds up a hill (think small trees in a gully.) I had a dual battery setup on my last one and it was way more trouble and expense than it was worth after the name-brand isolator failed.

That is good information. I am going to look into replacing my fuse as well.

 

[Hondasxs]

That is good information. I am going to look into replacing my fuse as well.

I am not an expert, but there is a lot to consider.

My research suggests a fuse may be nothing more than a feeling of false security.

If you installed a 100a fuse, you may blow it while winching.
If you installed a 200a fuse, you may blow it while winching HARD.
If you installed a 300a fuse, you are protected from the winches listed max draw overload.

HOWEVER....
Can your battery even handle a 300 amp short?
If not, the battery itself becomes the overload protection point due to loss of power.

Example.
The GYZ16H is only listed to produce 240 CCA's.
That means the 250a fuse is useless in this system.

So.. bottom line, install it if it makes you feel good.

Ok.. Just things to think about. lol.

Please do your own research.

I am interested in hearing the thoughts of someone with more knowledge of battery power usage.

 

[WagginTail]

I am not an expert, but there is a lot to consider.

My research suggests a fuse may be nothing more than a feeling of false security.

If you installed a 100a fuse, you may blow it while winching.
If you installed a 200a fuse, you may blow it while winching HARD.
If you installed a 300a fuse, you are protected from the winches listed max draw overload.

HOWEVER....
Can your battery even handle a 300 amp short?
If not, the battery itself becomes the overload protection point due to loss of power.

Example.
The GYZ16H is only listed to produce 240 CCA's.
That means the 250a fuse is useless in this system.

So.. bottom line, install it if it makes you feel good.

Ok.. Just things to think about. lol.

Please do your own research.

I am interested in hearing the thoughts of someone with more knowledge of battery power usage.

@bumperm

 

[GGreen]

I am not an expert, but there is a lot to consider.

My research suggests a fuse may be nothing more than a feeling of false security.

If you installed a 100a fuse, you may blow it while winching.
If you installed a 200a fuse, you may blow it while winching HARD.
If you installed a 300a fuse, you are protected from the winches listed max draw overload.

HOWEVER....
Can your battery even handle a 300 amp short?
If not, the battery itself becomes the overload protection point due to loss of power.

Example.
The GYZ16H is only listed to produce 240 CCA's.
That means the 250a fuse is useless in this system.

So.. bottom line, install it if it makes you feel good.

Ok.. Just things to think about. lol.

Please do your own research.

I am interested in hearing the thoughts of someone with more knowledge of battery power usage.

Yeah, I think I'm just going to installl it as designed, no fuse, no double battery system. Thanks!

 

[bumperm]

Keep in mind that a battery's CCA rating is about both its current output AND the length of time it can provide that output and stay within its rating without lasting damage to the battery. This in no way implies that the battery won't put out a LOT (with emphasis) more current than its CCA rating if its terminals are shorted by a good size conductor with low resistance. Don't test this with a wrench at home kids!

CCA rating is typically based on being able to deliver that rated current for 30 seconds without battery damage. On the other hand, a time delay fuse may have a rating of one to ten seconds or even longer (varies with fuse rating of course). That said, if a dead short (a few milliohms of resistance) is placed across battery terminals, bad things will happen right away as the battery's internal resistance is quite low - for a lead acid battery something on the order of 50 to 100 milliohm range maybe. Expect the shorted battery will put out 1,000 or more amps for a very short period of time while those spectacular things happen!

Note too, that lithium batteries have internal resistance far lower than lead-acid. Thus care in handling is doubtless even more important.

The take-home in all this is that fuses are important. However, most winch installations don't fuse the usually short wire run between the battery and contactor and winch. As with the starter motor in most vehicles, fuses are not used and instead wiring runs are made with care and are typically short to minimize the chance of fireworks due to wire damage.

Sounds dangerous, so one may wonder why this is done. The answer, I think, is due to the fact that a fuse has resistance - and this results in some voltage drop and thus less power delivered to the starter motor or winch. So, it's done for the sake of efficiency and with the understanding that good careful and conservative wire routing will suffice to prevent mayhem.

 

[bumperm]

Yeah, I think I'm just going to installl it as designed, no fuse, no double battery system. Thanks!

I'm thinking a dual battery system is a real plus if you ever need to use the winch for any significant period of time, especially so if this must be done without the help of alternator and engine running (which is only a pitifully small amount of help as it's 50 amp max output is at 5,000 rpm, - much less at engine idle.

A second battery is good insurance if you use your sxs in the boonies.

 

[GGreen]

I'm thinking a dual battery system is a real plus if you ever need to use the winch for any significant period of time, especially so if this must be done without the help of alternator and engine running (which is only a pitifully small amount of help as it's 50 amp max output is at 5,000 rpm, - much less at engine idle.

A second battery is good insurance if you use your sxs in the boonies.

Had one in my last Pioneer 1000. The brand name isolator failed. Way more trouble and expense than it was worth. I don't do any extended winching - primarily use it to drag things weighing a few hundred pounds for 30 seconds. Willing to risk it. A replacement winch would be cheaper than a good dual battry setup.