BRed Big Red low power and misfire

[JMichael]

2012 Big Red light adult use. Starts easily and idles smoothly; 1rst gear low speed operation isnormal, but begins to lose power and misfire under moderate acceleration. Same misfire in neutral under moderate throttle. MIL comes on but no DTC blink codes, fuel supply is clean with good pressure, but old plug showed carbon buildup like it is running too rich. Oil level good, muffler and spark arrestor not clogged and have replaced plug, coil, EFI, IAC, and air filter. I have read several posts about excessive camshaft wear but Honda dealer says no such recalls or bulletins for this VIN, plus there is a 6 week backlog for their shop to diagnose. Can CKP, MAP, or TP sensors cause this? Suggestions?

 

[Admin]

 

[Russ989]

2012 Big Red light adult use. Starts easily and idles smoothly; 1rst gear low speed operation isnormal, but begins to lose power and misfire under moderate acceleration. Same misfire in neutral under moderate throttle. Fuel supply is clean with good pressure, but old plug showed carbon buildup like it is running too rich. Oil level good, muffler and spark arrestor not clogged and have replaced plug, coil, EFI, IAC, and air filter. I have read several posts about excessive camshaft wear but Honda dealer says no such recalls or bulletins for this VIN, plus there is a 6 week backlog for their shop to diagnose. Can MAP or TP sensors cause this? Also, does anyone know whether the crank position sensor is integral with the stator assembly? Suggestions?

Have you checked compression and valve clearance?

 

[HondaTech]

Are the valves noticeable loud?

Sounds like you may have cam lobe failure, which is pretty common on these machines.

 

[DG Rider]

This sounds like yet another cam failure. I sure wish Honda would at least say why this happens.

Yes, the ckp is integral to the stator assembly.

 

[HondaTech]

This sounds like yet another cam failure. I sure wish Honda would at least say why this happens.

Yes, the ckp is integral to the stator assembly.

Honestly i dont believe they have a clue why. This has been a thing for over 15 years now, since the Rincon came about. It widely spans miles, machine condition, use and other factors. So its hard to pin down.

We've got a P700 in the shop now with 3200 miles thats beat to hell and the intake lobe is almost round.

 

[JMichael]

Honestly i dont believe they have a clue why. This has been a thing for over 15 years now, since the Rincon came about. It widely spans miles, machine condition, use and other factors. So its hard to pin down.

We've got a P700 in the shop now with 3200 miles thats beat to hell and the intake lobe is almost round.

Much obliged to everyone for the timely and helpful responses! No, I have not checked compression or valve clearance (and I have not noticed any loud valve train noise), but from everything I have read, the excessively worn camshaft sounds like the most likely culprit. Although I am not surprised that Honda would be reluctant to "admit" such a defect ($$$), it is still very interesting to me that my large local dealer seems clueless about such a long standing problem. So....... it is into the engine we go. Any suggestions regarding the best source for reliable camshaft parts would be appreciated.

 

[reddvlz]

New to forum...just bought a 2009 MUV. Starter went out and my local dealer noticed a lot of "glitter" in the oil. He suspects I might have a camshaft going out. I'm told its fairly common and typically affects units that idle a lot. The culprit (according to the dealer) is the camshaft sits in an oil sump which can be oil starved, especially at idle. Eventually the oil gets hot and sludges causing cam failure. The fix is to drill holes in the sump to allow for better oil flow. They even have had a template made up to facilitate this. Parts are not too bad, but you may be looking at 10+ hours of shop time to make the repair and alteration

 

[Buggyman]

New to forum...just bought a 2009 MUV. Starter went out and my local dealer noticed a lot of "glitter" in the oil. He suspects I might have a camshaft going out. I'm told its fairly common and typically affects units that idle a lot. The culprit (according to the dealer) is the camshaft sits in an oil sump which can be oil starved, especially at idle. Eventually the oil gets hot and sludges causing cam failure. The fix is to drill holes in the sump to allow for better oil flow. They even have had a template made up to facilitate this. Parts are not too bad, but you may be looking at 10+ hours of shop time to make the repair and alteration

the original poster has not been on here for over a year

 

[reddvlz]

got that, but it seemed some other people were at a loss for this problem, just thought I add my 2c

 

[HondaTech]

New to forum...just bought a 2009 MUV. Starter went out and my local dealer noticed a lot of "glitter" in the oil. He suspects I might have a camshaft going out. I'm told its fairly common and typically affects units that idle a lot. The culprit (according to the dealer) is the camshaft sits in an oil sump which can be oil starved, especially at idle. Eventually the oil gets hot and sludges causing cam failure. The fix is to drill holes in the sump to allow for better oil flow. They even have had a template made up to facilitate this. Parts are not too bad, but you may be looking at 10+ hours of shop time to make the repair and alteration

10 hours, holy s*** ive been doing camshaft replacements for cheap then.

I would never drill holes in the "sump" that would let the camshaft run dry in my opinion. Of all the failures I've seen, none of them had sludgy oil in the "sump".

 

[Hondarider]

Ditto on the bad camshaft. Been through this. Shops didn't admit this and act like it is the first time they have ever seen the symptoms. Was told by another shop after cam replaced that when checking oil run it first to warm, then shut off for no more than a minute and check oil. Said it is ok to run a bit over full and make sure it is appropriate oil for the ambient temps. Thin oil winter use and if lots of engine starting and stopping.

 

[Smiley3303]

Joining this club! Have had 2013 BR since new always used Amsoil 0w-40 made it until this week. No idea on hours or miles because of the genius design without either. Local dealer said he keeps parts on hand and used to do 10 a year. I have loved this machine but it is frustrating that is has this design flaw. Anyway they are charging $2000 and will have it a week once I get it there. I thought that was okay really.

 

[Hello_Darkness]

Joining this club! Have had 2013 BR since new always used Amsoil 0w-40 made it until this week. No idea on hours or miles because of the genius design without either. Local dealer said he keeps parts on hand and used to do 10 a year. I have loved this machine but it is frustrating that is has this design flaw. Anyway they are charging $2000 and will have it a week once I get it there. I thought that was okay really.

Your getting screwed for $2000 just to do a camshaft.

I think we charge like $400 or $500 in labor plus parts, under $1000 most likely.

 

[Smiley3303]

It was a list of things they do. I’ll get the list and let you know.

Where are you at?

 

[hondabob]

As you load the engine the firing voltage goes up. Replace the spark plug cap next and check the camshaft. A bad spark plug cap will be ok until you load the engine.

 

[Hello_Darkness]

It was a list of things they do. I’ll get the list and let you know.

Where are you at?

Cincinnati, OH

 

[Hello_Darkness]

As you load the engine the firing voltage goes up. Replace the spark plug cap next and check the camshaft. A bad spark plug cap will be ok until you load the engine.

Never had a bad plug cap on any Honda product unless some idiot ripped the boot which happens on the 700 engine due to the design occasionally.

Honda coils/wires/caps generally don't go bad