P700 Blowing starters and weak cranking

[CountryCurt700]

Hey everyone,
Hope i can find a solution for whats going on.
I have a 2016 pioneer 700
I purchased it used and have had it for about 6 months. In that time i have gone through 3 new starters. They get to a point where they just will not turn the bike over no matter the voltage i supply to the. Had it hooked to my f-250 pushing 14 volt and still wouldn't even make one full turn. I also have the issue of the teeth on the starters wearing badly. If i bolt the starter directly to the block without shimming with at least 2-3 washers under each side the starter wont hardly make contact with the one way gear. Im about to pull the rear cover and dive in but wanted to get some input first as i am stumped on this one.

 

[Admin]

 

[Alan_Vander]

So your wearing the gear and the motor on the starter as well? The gear could be need to replace the flywheel. Or could be something else going on here. When it is running does it give you any troubles as far as power is concerned other than being a 700?. Fist id start with checking voltage when running seeing if its around 14.2-14.4 volts on its own accord. Could be over volting or under volting causing you to burn starter up. If it isnt running good when cranked it could be other mechanical issues causing your premature starter failure.

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[CountryCurt700]

There isn't any wear that I can see on the one-way gear inside the case but the gear on the starter wears pretty rapidly. I actually just opened up the starter and the contact brushes are completely worn through. The magnets are cracked and the whole thing has swollen to the point where I can't get the starter apart entirely and that starter is only 6 months old. Im assuming that id 80% of the issue however I still have the issue of the starters not making contacts properly with the gear unless i stack a ton of washers under it.

 

[CountryCurt700]

And no I haven't had any noticeable power decreases. I did a valve adjustment about 2 months and it had been starting a little easier since then they were about 2 to 3 thousandth off. And I have an onboard volt meter that reads constant 13.8 - 14.2 when running. And i have dual batteries.

 

[Alan_Vander]

Or could be a bad ground to the starter since your putting washers in it could start by adding a ground strap to the starter or checking the motor ground strap.

 

[Alan_Vander]

Never heard of the gear doing that on these yet. It is the stock honda starter your using?.

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[CountryCurt700]

Yeah purchased from a Honda dealer six months ago I called them and I'm waiting to see about a warranty replacement. It's just strange though because when the bike is not running it holds a steady 12.8 volt

 

[CountryCurt700]

And I have one other old starter that was brand-new on the bike when I purchased it that is doing the same thing so I assume it's also in the same condition. That one was also from honda

 

[Alan_Vander]

Voltage sounds right on the money. Seems like it would be the starter but to go through 3 in a short time. 99.99% sure you didnt get 3 faulty starters in a row. It has to be a wire problem somewhere.

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[CountryCurt700]

Ever since I bought the bike it's had a bit of an issue starting it occasionally will recoil and sound like it's skipping teeth. It makes a very violent snap but then we'll continue to turn over just fine and I have checked all the gears for missing teeth Etc and can't find anything. I'm wondering if maybe timing is off but I'm not sure

 

[CountryCurt700]

I thought the same thing I have run new wires to the starter from the solenoid 8 gauge. And a new ground directly to the bolt on the starter because I was concerned maybe it wasn't getting a good ground. I have checked for shorts and there is little to no resistance nothing concerning.

 

[Alan_Vander]

Nah if its running right when running then timing isnt off. After a fresh valve setting you would of known during it cause the valves wouldnt of lined up right at TDC. Im willing to bet its a ground issue getting to the starter. As far as burning them goes.

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[Alan_Vander]

Well then im stumped. If all new wires and grounds and all tight. Try this pull the starter wire off the side of the starter selenoid. Toss a voltmeter on it and turn it like your going to start and see what voltage shows up. Its a 1 in a million chance but with everything you said thats about the last possible place.

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[CountryCurt700]

Good idea i was curious about that solenoid ill try that and update 👍

 

[Alan_Vander]

Id do a 3 way test to see do 1 on wire you put as ground to starter and selenoid. Then do ground from starter and battery +. Then do selenoid and battery -. You should have same voltage all 3 times . The 1 with less voltage will be your problem.

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[CountryCurt700]

Same voltage on all 3 12.4v ( battery is a little dead from previous attempts to start)

 

[CountryCurt700]

The other thing that I am wondering is if maybe the one way gear is not disengaging when the motor is running. Because the starters are in constant contact with a gear and they are not engaged to the Gear by the solenoid if maybe the starter is constantly spinning and generating heat while running

 

[Alan_Vander]

The other thing that I am wondering is if maybe the one way gear is not disengaging when the motor is running. Because the starters are in constant contact with a gear and they are not engaged to the Gear by the solenoid if maybe the starter is constantly spinning and generating heat while running

Could be a possibility

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[CountryCurt700]

There is another post similar to mine but no fix has been posted. 😔

 

[Alan_Vander]

The starter staying engaged would make the most sense. But then it s just figuring out why it is. Excess wear on teeth. Motor brushes shot . Kinda wish i was around to actually look at it.

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