Dual battery questions

[TireTechGuy]

I have a 2021 pioneer 1000-5. My question is. Do I need an isolator or can I just wire 2 batteries together as 1 big bank of power. I don't park and use music or nothing I just want extra power for running my winch when plowing. The local audio shop has all I need. He has a big relay he said that acts as an isolator with a trigger wire. Or I can just run 2 batteries together but I wanted more information off here with guys who may know a little more about the subject. Thanks

 

[Admin]

 

[TireTechGuy]

I have a 2021 pioneer 1000-5. My question is. Do I need an isolator or can I just wire 2 batteries together as 1 big bank of power. I don't park and use music or nothing I just want extra power for running my winch when plowing. The local audio shop has all I need. He has a big relay he said that acts as an isolator with a trigger wire. Or I can just run 2 batteries together but I wanted more information off here with guys who may know a little more about the subject. Thanks

Only other accessories I run are 2 led bars. One 52 inch on the roof and 1 12 inch off the hondasxs.com store. Thanks.

 

[Montecresto]

I’ve got a SXS that’s equipped like that for a few years now with no adverse effects.

 

[TireTechGuy]

I’ve got a SXS that’s equipped like that for a few years now with no adverse effects.

So I don't need an isolator? I can just run 2 small 12v Honda batteries in parallel as a bigger supply. That won't have any negative affects on the stator?

 

[Montecresto]

So I don't need an isolator? I can just run 2 small 12v Honda batteries in parallel as a bigger supply. That won't have any negative affects on the stator?

I’ve had no trouble with mine set up like that. I did it that way for my work SXS that I keep at my property in the Rockies, it’s not garaged and I wanted the extra power for cold starts. I have two others that have a lot of not running radio time and they’re both equipped with isolator’s.

 

[Hillbillytnt]

If your always in it a dual volt meter would prob be more useful than an isolator

 

[TireTechGuy]

If your always in it a dual volt meter would prob be more useful than an isolator

Yeah I only have this issue plowing. I just wasn't sure if I need an isolator or if I can just run 2 batteries in parallel. It's starting to snow and I was going to run out and buy a battery and some parts to install. I don't want to run into the issue of parallel with no isolator killing the stator or something. I'm very dumb when it comes to how electronic things work and draw/charge ect. Lol from my understanding an isolator is only good for guys who shut the machiene off and run a radio. I will never do that I just want to run my lights and winch plowing and not drop voltage down to 10-11volts like the meter is saying. It flashes and says "low" everytime I lift my plow and I fear I'll damage the clutches in the sub trans if I keep that up. I wait until the meter says 14 before driving the machiene but I don't want to have to wait. I want to just plow lol

 

[Scoop]

If your always in it a dual volt meter would prob be more useful than an isolator

I'm certainly no rocket scientist, but if you connect two (presumably identical) 12v batteries in parallel, this doubles capacity but does not affect voltage at all.

That being the case, how would you be able to use a dual voltmeter to measure the individual battery voltages whilst the two are connected in parallel?

 

[TireTechGuy]

I'm certainly no rocket scientist, but if you connect two (presumably identical) 12v batteries in parallel, this doubles capacity but does not affect voltage at all.

That being the case, how would you be able to use a dual voltmeter to measure the individual battery voltages whilst the two are connected in parallel?

They would both share the same voltage meter. So if one battery was at 12 and one was at 10 it would even out and say 11 meet in the middle. I gave up on this after researching more and just bit the bullet and ordered the isolator kit off hondasxs.com store today. Now I guess I need to order the oddest pc925 battery everyone recommends. Gonna do that today aswell and in 2 weeks I'll have a proper setup 🤷 saves the headache or guessing and wondering. Was trying to find a today solution but why half ass it on my brand new machiene. I just buy the proper kit and it's done . Thanks for the info guys

 

[Scoop]

They would both share the same voltage meter. So if one battery was at 12 and one was at 10 it would even out and say 11 meet in the middle.

Exactly. You can't measure the individual battery voltages if they are connected in parallel.

My point was that @Hillbillytnt's comment that a parallel battery setup plus a dual voltmeter was "more useful" than a dual battery setup with an isolator made zero sense, as both meters would read the exact same voltage all the time. I don't understand how that is useful at all

Bottom line, running a dual battery setup with an isolator IS a parallel battery configuration (double capacity, same voltage) but with the added failsafe that, if discharge occurs, you'll always have at least one battery. If you drain the AUX battery, no big deal, start the machine and drive. If you lose the primary battery, you have a full AUX battery than you can jump the primary battery with in order to, again, get home.

IMHO, there is far more benefit to using an isolator than just eliminating the worry of getting stranded because you want to listening to the radio while the key is off. What if a wire gets damaged and shorts out? What if you have other accessories connected to an always-on 12v source (many do this for certain accessories) and you inadvertently leave the accessory on when you put the bike away? What if one of your two batteries sustains damage (e.g., a hard jolt results in some of the internal plates getting jammed together)? In any of these scenarios, you're losing BOTH batteries, not just one. Losing a battery can be as benign as having to be jump started to get home or as hostile and costly as having to buy TWO new batteries.

Glad you went with an isolator. It's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

[TireTechGuy]

Exactly. You can't measure the individual battery voltages if they are connected in parallel.

My point was that @Hillbillytnt's comment that a parallel battery setup plus a dual voltmeter was "more useful" than a dual battery setup with an isolator made zero sense, as both meters would read the exact same voltage all the time. I don't understand how that is useful at all

Bottom line, running a dual battery setup with an isolator IS a parallel battery configuration (double capacity, same voltage) but with the added failsafe that, if discharge occurs, you'll always have at least one battery. If you drain the AUX battery, no big deal, start the machine and drive. If you lose the primary battery, you have a full AUX battery than you can jump the primary battery with in order to, again, get home.

IMHO, there is far more benefit to using an isolator than just eliminating the worry of getting stranded because you want to listening to the radio while the key is off. What if a wire gets damaged and shorts out? What if you have other accessories connected to an always-on 12v source (many do this for certain accessories) and you inadvertently leave the accessory on when you put the bike away? What if one of your two batteries sustains damage (e.g., a hard jolt results in some of the internal plates getting jammed together)? In any of these scenarios, you're losing BOTH batteries, not just one. Losing a battery can be as benign as having to be jump started to get home or as hostile and costly as having to buy TWO new batteries.

Glad you went with an isolator. It's a small price to pay for peace of mind.

I have a new problem. The winch isn't connected to the primary battery.. it's wired directly into the harness of the machiene. So now I'm in more of a bind because I can't swap it to a secondary battery as easily as I once thought with the true isolator kit . I might have to run in parallel FML...glad I spent money today on stuff I don't think I can use

 

[Hillbillytnt]

I'm certainly no rocket scientist, but if you connect two (presumably identical) 12v batteries in parallel, this doubles capacity but does not affect voltage at all.

That being the case, how would you be able to use a dual voltmeter to measure the individual battery voltages whilst the two are connected in parallel?

The discussion was about isolators and relays and dual batteries. The OP mentioned using a big relay when that relay breaks the connection the dual volt meter will read each battery. Just like the one in my isolated system does until it kicks open. If he hooks it up without the relay then ya it’s the same system. A voltmeter is always a good idea the isolator is a fail safe for when I forget to watch it.

 

[TireTechGuy]

The discussion was about isolators and relays and dual batteries. The OP mentioned using a big relay when that relay breaks the connection the dual volt meter will read each battery. Just like the one in my isolated system does until it kicks open. If he hooks it up without the relay then ya it’s the same system. A voltmeter is always a good idea the isolator is a fail safe for when I forget to watch it.

How do I remove the winch sub harness . I can't even use the isolation kit I bought today with the way the factory winch is wired in.. it's literally wired to the machiene harness. I bought the isolation kit solely to solve my winch power draw issue.. now I'm completely lost again. What a stupid setup Honda has on the wiring for the winch to the main battery

 

[Hillbillytnt]

How do I remove the winch sub harness . I can't even use the isolation kit I bought today with the way the factory winch is wired in.. it's literally wired to the machiene harness. I bought the isolation kit solely to solve my winch power draw issue.. now I'm completely lost again. What a stupid setup Honda has on the wiring for the winch to the main battery

Don’t have that harness so can’t help with that but I’m sure someone here has it.

 

[TireTechGuy]

Don’t have that harness so can’t help with that but I’m sure someone here has it.

Yeah it's called a sub harness for factory warn winch. It's a mess. Worst case I'll take it to the dealer and say remove all that crap. I want them to remove the factory switch pannel harness kit for the dash aswell I want basic 2 battery. A positive and a negative and I'll wire my aftermarket accessories Just as that, aftermarket. I don't see why they had to be fancy and plug and play all over the harness. Especially when they designed a system that can't even run its own accessories and the trans and ecu all at once withought a second battery. Lol I spent 600$ today buying all the equipment I need and now I need to pay the dealer to strip the machiene to remove their fancy wiring junk lol... Definitely a little annoyed today with this machiene

 

[Hillbillytnt]

Yeah it's called a sub harness for factory warn winch. It's a mess. Worst case I'll take it to the dealer and say remove all that crap. I want them to remove the factory switch pannel harness kit for the dash aswell I want basic 2 battery. A positive and a negative and I'll wire my aftermarket accessories Just as that, aftermarket. I don't see why they had to be fancy and plug and play all over the harness. Especially when they designed a system that can't even run its own accessories and the trans and ecu all at once withought a second battery. Lol I spent 600$ today buying all the equipment I need and now I need to pay the dealer to strip the machiene to remove their fancy wiring junk lol... Definitely a little annoyed today with this machiene

Mines as basic as they get. Everything I have is aftermarket. It’s easy to get frustrated with some of this stuff. I think it’s best to have everything hooked to the second battery. But if you had two cables long enough I would just drop in the battery hook it up and see if it fixes your problem. You mentioned a meter so just watch it and see how it does.

 

[Scoop]

The discussion was about isolators and relays and dual batteries. The OP mentioned using a big relay when that relay breaks the connection the dual volt meter will read each battery. Just like the one in my isolated system does until it kicks open. If he hooks it up without the relay then ya it’s the same system. A voltmeter is always a good idea the isolator is a fail safe for when I forget to watch it.

I interpreted your earlier comment as comparing a dual battery system without an isolator but with a dual voltmeter VERSUS a dual battery system with an isolator but without a dual voltmeter. You said the former was more useful than the latter. It is not.

You don't install a relay to separate the two batteries in a dual battery system. That is what the isolator does. Without an isolator of some sort, all batteries in a parallel system are always connected to one another.

You use a relay to separate the accessories from the system (regardless of how many batteries you gave connected in parallel) so that the accessories are only powered when the key is on.

With a properly installed relay for separating the accessory load with key-on (or similar) switching, both (all) batteries would STILL be installed in parallel and, without an isolator, both batteries would read the exact same voltage at all times.

My point remains that a dual voltmeter is useless without an isolator because a properly installed relay ONLY doesn't separate the batteries - it only separates the accessory load from the system.

 

[Scoop]

How do I remove the winch sub harness . I can't even use the isolation kit I bought today with the way the factory winch is wired in.. it's literally wired to the machiene harness. I bought the isolation kit solely to solve my winch power draw issue.. now I'm completely lost again. What a stupid setup Honda has on the wiring for the winch to the main battery

What year and model is your P1K? Does it have factory winch? I'm not familiar with how the factory winches are installed or what sub harness you're referring to.

Relative to delivering power, most winch contactors have four large lugs: Two go to the winch, one goes to ground and one to your 12V positive, typically direct to the battery post.

To have the winch drawing from the second battery, you need to route the 12V positive lug cable to the 2nd battery positive instead of where it's drawing over from now. Do NOT have this AFTER your relay, such as to the fused switch block. This should go directly to the 2nd battery post or, if you have installed one, an always on positive bus bar from the 2nd battery.

Ground is ground so you don't need to move that. You don't need to change anything with the two cables going to the winch, either.

Install your isolator to separate the two battery positive posts.

There should also be a smaller wire from the winch contactor to a 12v source (likely part of the harness in your case). I have mine going to a 12v key-on power source, but some folks prefer it to be hot all the time. Since it only draws a little power, I'd say no big deal if it's connected to the harness that is powered by the primary battery.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hillbillytnt]

I interpreted your earlier comment as comparing a dual battery system without an isolator but with a dual voltmeter VERSUS a dual battery system with an isolator but without a dual voltmeter. You said the former was more useful than the latter. It is not.

You don't install a relay to separate the two batteries in a dual battery system. That is what the isolator does. Without an isolator of some sort, all batteries in a parallel system are always connected to one another.

You use a relay to separate the accessories from the system (regardless of how many batteries you gave connected in parallel) so that the accessories are only powered when the key is on.

With a properly installed relay for separating the accessory load with key-on (or similar) switching, both (all) batteries would STILL be installed in parallel and, without an isolator, both batteries would read the exact same voltage at all times.

My point remains that a dual voltmeter is useless without an isolator because a properly installed relay ONLY doesn't separate the batteries - it only separates the accessory load from the system.

A lot of different ways to do it. Relays are just big switches. In my opinion a voltmeter is much more useful than an isolator but that’s why they sell both alone and together.

 

[Scoop]

A lot of different ways to do it. Relays are just big switches. In my opinion a voltmeter is much more useful than an isolator but that’s why they sell both alone and together.

100% agree that a voltmeter is good. But you said a dual voltmeter was better than an isolator in a dual battery system that lacked an isolator. That's the only thing I disagree with you on.

A voltmeter is only good if you're looking at it, a dual voltmeter is only good if your system is wired to take advantage of it, but an isolator can save your bacon (and your battery and pocketbook) even if you're not around.

Honestly, for the price of the relay and isolator, you should never be without either. Both are far cheaper than replacing battery after battery, and all of it will help you avoid getting stranded out in the middle of nowhere.