FINALLY, Another Turbo Option for the Talon!

[PaulF]

Discuss amongst yourselves...

165-05-1000 - Turbocharger Systems - KraftWerks USA

<p>Kraftwerk’s is proud to introduce the next generation of Honda Talon Turbo Kits.</p> <p>While the Honda Talon showed the world just how good a side by side built by Honda could be, Kraftwerks wants to show the world just how much better Honda&rs

kraftwerksusa.com

 

[Admin]

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I like that they use PV3 and open tune…….

Hmmmm tempted…….

 

[PaulF]

I like that they use PV3 and open tune…….

Hmmmm tempted…….

PV3, yes.

Open tune I am not sure of. I could never get a straight answer on that and still waiting to see if they post the tunes for download so I can see if they are locked or not.

 

[sspeederr]

PV3, yes.

Open tune I am not sure of. I could never get a straight answer on that and still waiting to see if they post the tunes for download so I can see if they are locked or not.

I saw a documentary on there shop several months back and they had the talon outside and wouldnt speak much on it at that time either just said that they were in testing faze for it, there site that they direct you to still is not up and operation to download the tunes???????? curious as well about the open source and what they are doing. i wonder what there filtration system looks like, they say its Donaldson style dual-filter intake but do not feel the need for prefiltration.

 

[CID]

Lot of broken pistons in turbo'd Talon's, hopefully Honda will start using forged pistons for the potential turbo add ons, especially since they're authorizing the Jackson setup. Yamaha started using turbo suited rods in all of the YXZ's after a bunch blew up under boost.

The SxSBlog guys dropped a valve in theirs. They didn't do much damage, the first revolution stuck the valve in the up position but they lost enough compression that they quit running it.

Talon info starts at 7 minutes -

 

[HondaTech]

Not gonna lie for the money and same power as the Jackson kit, that looks like hot garbage.

 

[Ugly]

Discuss amongst yourselves...

165-05-1000 - Turbocharger Systems - KraftWerks USA

<p>Kraftwerk’s is proud to introduce the next generation of Honda Talon Turbo Kits.</p> <p>While the Honda Talon showed the world just how good a side by side built by Honda could be, Kraftwerks wants to show the world just how much better Honda&rs

kraftwerksusa.com

PaulF, in your opinion, how hard are turbo's on pistons? Or do you have to upgrade to be safe. Thanks in advance.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

DO NOT INSTALL A TURBO KIT WITHOUT INSTALLING FORGED PISTONS. ITS NOT A MATTER OF IF, ITS WHEN ARE THE GOING TO BREAK........AND ITS GOING TO HAPPEN.


Why does nobody understand this? If your not willing to buy and install a set of pistons along with the turbo kit, a turbo kit is not for you.....

 

[PaulF]

PaulF, in your opinion, how hard are turbo's on pistons? Or do you have to upgrade to be safe. Thanks in advance.

Any increase in power is an increase on stress, wear, tear, etc. A Turbo is going cause early wear and in some extreme cases, breakage.

That said, there have been thousands of turbo kits installed out there and the only breakage I have heard of is...

• Early tunes were wrong (too much timing I believe) and Jackson replaced a few (VERY few) engines to make it right. Since then, everything quieted down on that front.
• Racers running them hard have broke a few but racers break everything they run so that doesn't count.
• A couple guys that have done their own tuning and/or increased boost so that doesn't count either.
• And even at least 1 NON turbo machines that has broken stock pistons.

Other than that, they seem to stay together for your average user. If you intend to run the dunes a lot, I would suggest forged pistons BUT I am not aware of any that are the same compression ratio as stock

Stock 10:1
CP sells 9.5, 10.5 and 11.5:1.
Wiseco sells 9.0 and 10.5:1

So you either use 9 or 9.5:1 and now you are down on power so you have to figure out how to raise the boost. BUT the stock MAP sensor only reads 8psi (thus the reason everyone is stopping at 8).

Or you go to 10.5:1 and now you are running race fuel.

In any case, if you put a different CR forged piston in, then you have to change the tune. At this time, forged pistons are a can of worms until you can find 10:1 forged pistons.

Note: CP *might* sell custom pistons so you might somehow be able to get 10:1 forged so you don't have to mess with all the tuning and MAP sensor s*** (unless you want to of course).

 

[Ugly]

Any increase in power is an increase on stress, wear, tear, etc. A Turbo is going cause early wear and in some extreme cases, breakage.

That said, there have been thousands of turbo kits installed out there and the only breakage I have heard of is...

• Early tunes were wrong (too much timing I believe) and Jackson replaced a few (VERY few) engines to make it right. Since then, everything quieted down on that front.
• Racers running them hard have broke a few but racers break everything they run so that doesn't count.
• A couple guys that have done their own tuning and/or increased boost so that doesn't count either.
• And even at least 1 NON turbo machines that has broken stock pistons.

Other than that, they seem to stay together for your average user. If you intend to run the dunes a lot, I would suggest forged pistons BUT I am not aware of any that are the same compression ratio as stock

Stock 10:1
CP sells 9.5, 10.5 and 11.5:1.
Wiseco sells 9.0 and 10.5:1

So you either use 9 or 9.5:1 and now you are down on power so you have to figure out how to raise the boost. BUT the stock MAP sensor only reads 8psi (thus the reason everyone is stopping at 8).

Or you go to 10.5:1 and now you are running race fuel.

In any case, if you put a different CR forged piston in, then you have to change the tune. At this time, forged pistons are a can of worms until you can find 10:1 forged pistons.

Note: CP *might* sell custom pistons so you might somehow be able to get 10:1 forged so you don't have to mess with all the tuning and MAP sensor s*** (unless you want to of course).

Great answer!! Thanks so much for some great suggestions. I appreciate the extra effort,

 

[Bigshow]

Could you not buy the 10.5:1 piston and have the dome machined down so the piston was 10:1. I wanted a 13:1 for my quad race engine and the race shop I was dealing with only had 14:1. They cut dome down so it was just 13:1.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Could you not buy the 10.5:1 piston and have the dome machined down so the piston was 10:1. I wanted a 13:1 for my quad race engine and the race shop I was dealing with only had 14:1. They cut dome down so it was just 13:1.

That very possible. The 10.5:1 CP pistons have thick domes and can be machined down if necessary.

 

[Many_Gs]

How difficult is it to install upgraded pistons, if we were to go with the new turbo kit? While I'm not a mechanic I've installed larger turbos, injectors, fuel pumps etc on Subaru wrxs over the years. I'm handy, however not sure how much of a headache I'd be in for with the talon.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

How difficult is it to install upgraded pistons, if we were to go with the new turbo kit? While I'm not a mechanic I've installed larger turbos, injectors, fuel pumps etc on Subaru wrxs over the years. I'm handy, however not sure how much of a headache I'd be in for with the talon.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

It can be done in the machine in about 4-5hrs from start to finish.

 

[HondaTech]

It can be done in the machine in about 4-5hrs from start to finish.

Well depending on the piston to cylinder clearance you may have to pull the cases and have them honed or bored/sleeved to get it right.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Well depending on the piston to cylinder clearance you may have to pull the cases and have them honed or bored/sleeved to get it right.

We both know almost nobody is going to do that. The Wossner shelf pistons have more cylinder wall clearance built into them than the CP pistons and they don't scuff the bores like the CPs do.

Wossner also is the only company selling a 10:1 piston that matches the factory compression ratio.

MCB Stage 1 Honda Talon 1000R Top-End Piston kit with gaskets 2019-23

Complete Premium top-end piston rebuild kit for 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 Honda Talon 1000r with pistons, gaskets and seals

mcbperformance.com

 

[HondaTech]

We both know almost nobody is going to do that. The Wossner shelf pistons have more cylinder wall clearance built into them than the CP pistons and they don't scuff the bores like the CPs do.

Wossner also is the only company selling a 10:1 piston that matches the factory compression ratio.

MCB Stage 1 Honda Talon 1000R Top-End Piston kit with gaskets 2019-23

Complete Premium top-end piston rebuild kit for 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 Honda Talon 1000r with pistons, gaskets and seals

mcbperformance.com

Are they made for boosted applications?
The orignal CPs we got from Hess turned out to not be for boosted engines. Thats why we had the issues apparently.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

The orignal CPs we got from Hess turned out to not be for boosted engines. Thats why we had the issues apparently.

Hess sent you the wrong parts? This is my shocked face.....

I doubt they are made specifically for boosted applications (that's just a ring height deal) but they are forged and the same compression as stock, so guys adding turbo kits and keeping the boost levels stock will have engines that run correctly and live long happy lives.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

You guys with turbo kits or who are thinking about adding one need to keep an eye on the PPEI Tuning FB page. They have been working on tuning for our engines, both N/A and turbo for well over a year and it's supposed to be released very very soon. They have figured out the fuel map and altitude adjustment problems and solved them all. Once this tuning is released to the public it's going to be the game changer you guys have all been looking for. Stay tuned.....

 

[CID]

You guys with turbo kits or who are thinking about adding one need to keep an eye on the PPEI Tuning FB page. They have been working on tuning for our engines, both N/A and turbo for well over a year and it's supposed to be released very very soon. They have figured out the fuel map and altitude adjustment problems and solved them all. Once this tuning is released to the public it's going to be the game changer you guys have all been looking for. Stay tuned.....

I'm starting to think about improved performance but staying NA. My problem is that half of my riding is at 8,000 + feet elevation, a fairly small percentage of the riding population (sometimes over 13k feet). @PaulF brought up hot start problems at altitude and Honda doesn't seem to care because of the small unit numbers involved.

If someone is really taking the altitude tuning seriously, that would be awesome for some of us.

Another concern I have is the open loop, closed loop fuel injection (I think that's the terms). One of them, and I think the Talon, is pretty 'dumb' and doesn't adjust on the fly, it simply uses a fuel map. I think that defeats the whole purpose of FI.