P1000 Pioneer 1000 engine - please explain

[Hondasxs]

DG, I took one other picture that made me laugh. it says suspensions parts can ONLY be checked by the dealer. LOL

But seems I deleted it. I will resnap in a bit.

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[Admin]

 

[DG Rider]

Yep.
Everyone is welcome to do what they wish.

But I know most honest dealers will follow this guideline.

Others will say it needs to be done at each noted service for $700 a pop.

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I know the majority of machines never get checked and never have an issue. I check my 700 at the intervals because they do occasionally have cam problems, and to me ignoring that area is poking the hornet's nest. But, it also doesn't cost me a cent...and if the machine "shows" me they are staying put, I will skip to every other. I certainly don't enjoy checking valves...

That said, if you're going to skip a valve check/adjustment, IMO the 1st one isn't the one to skip. Just my .02

 

[DG Rider]

DG, I took one other picture that made me laugh. it says suspensions parts can ONLY be checked by the dealer. LOL

But seems I deleted it. I will resnap in a bit.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I don't doubt it. Lawyers.

Imagine if somebody misaligned a steering joint on the shaft or started the bolt through in a bind and jacked the whole thing up? Oh...sorry...that was the Honda factory. My bad.

 

[lee]

But...I think what they are saying is if your valves get noisy before the next scheduled check, go ahead and check them. Don't just run it until the next interval.

I might be getting a little off the reservation but for you @DG Rider it makes perfect sense to listen to and evaluate the valve train noise when ever / where ever.
And, my perception as an off road enthusiast is that most people would and could do this.
But, for reasons, I don't think that is the norm any more.
Back in the day when we had 2 strokes you had to be on top of the noises your engine was making or you would be getting an close up inspection if you ignored a piston starting to rattle or got on it too soon and cold seized the piston.
Doing the top end (or at least doing the wrenching) was required or you couldn't afford the hobby.

Now most people don't perceive the diffrence between a CR-V and a Pioneer.
They have no concept of what is under the skin.
I keep seeing questions in places like this asking 'what is the stuff under the dash' I'm going to move it (if you don't know LEAVE IT ALONE).
Or they are b****ing about the door not sealing and questioning the engineers that designed it (there's no f***ing roof, windshield, side glass - why the f*** would they spend the time (time = $) to make the door seal). (If you want a CR-V go get one, my mom has one and she loves it)

You really want big h to trust thease customers to evaluate the valve train?
So in theory honda should be trying to make the thing as maintnace free as possible and use special bolts that home owners don't have sockets that can undo anything beyond the glove box door. (Just my personal opinion apperently)

 

[DG Rider]

I might be getting a little off the reservation but for you @DG Rider it makes perfect sense to listen to and evaluate the valve train noise when ever / where ever.
And, my perception as an off road enthusiast is that most people would and could do this.
But, for reasons, I don't think that is the norm any more.
Back in the day when we had 2 strokes you had to be on top of the noises your engine was making or you would getting a close up inspection if you ignored a piston starting to rattle or got on it too soon and cold seized the piston.
Doing the top end (or at least doing the wrenching) was required or you couldent afford the hobby.

Now most people don't perceive the diffrence between a CR-V and a Pioneer.
They have no concept of what is under the skin.
I keep seeing questions in places like this asking 'what is the stuff under the dash' I'm going to move it (if you don't know LEAVE IT ALONE).
Or they are b****ing about the door not sealing and questioning the engineers that designed it (there's no f***ing roof, windshield, side glass - why the f*** would they spend the time (time = $) to make the door seal). (If you want a CR-V go get one, my mom has one and she loves it)

You really want big h to trust thease customers to evaluate the valve train?
So in theory honda should be trying to make the thing as maintnace free as possible and use special bolts that home owners don't have sockets that can undo anything beyond the glove box door. (Just my personal opinion apperently)

I think if my interpretation is right it's purely a CYA move by Honda.

On a related story, my 1st 700 had loosened up enough by 75 miles that it was making noticably more noise than it should. I tried to ignore it, but couldn't, and finally broke down and checked them. And they were out pretty good. And yes, I checked again at the 100 mile service!

 

[mlynch001]

Question for you. Does bouncing off rev limiter damage valves?

The rev limiter is there to stop the engine from going into "Valve float". Occasional "bumping the limiter" is not, in itself harmful. However, constantly pushing the engine that hard and hitting the limiter will cause accelerated wear on many parts of the engine, not the least of which is the valve train. Since the AFRICA Twin Engine is capable of 10k RPM, I think that 7500-8000 RPM redline of the PIONEER 1000 is well within the safety zone of the design.

One key reason that these "shim under bucket" engines exist is to prevent the condition called "spitting shims" which was seen in MANY older designs which placed a wafer shim between the cam lobe and follower bucket. These engines could and would float valves when pushed too hard, as most had no rev-limiter. This valve float could subsequently dislodge the shim from the bucket, then proceed to kick the shim violently out through the head casting. It was a dramatic and costly mistake to allow such an engine to "float" the valves.

In addition, the "shim under bucket" design is also a much lighter and more compact configuration. Lighter components allow higher RPM before valve float can occur and more compact components allow a shallower angle between the valves, which in turn creates more space for ports, as well as a flatter and more compact combustion chamber.

All in all. the electronic rev limiter is a Godsend for these modern engines, these things will save an engine from failure resulting from all but the most determined and destructive individuals. I would avoid the rev limiter if possible. However, if you are one who regularly tests the limiter (for whatever reason), you should be prepared for more frequent and more intensive maintenance.

 

[Fischer]

The rev limiter is there to stop the engine from going into "Valve float". Occasional "bumping the limiter" is not, in itself harmful. However, constantly pushing the engine that hard and hitting the limiter will cause accelerated wear on many parts of the engine, not the least of which is the valve train. Since the AFRICA Twin Engine is capable of 10k RPM, I think that 7500-8000 RPM redline of the PIONEER 1000 is well within the safety zone of the design.

One key reason that these "shim under bucket" engines exist is to prevent the condition called "spitting shims" which was seen in MANY older designs which placed a wafer shim between the cam lobe and follower bucket. These engines could and would float valves when pushed too hard, as most had no rev-limiter. This valve float could subsequently dislodge the shim from the bucket, then proceed to kick the shim violently out through the head casting. It was a dramatic and costly mistake to allow such an engine to "float" the valves.

In addition, the "shim under bucket" design is also a much lighter and more compact configuration. Lighter components allow higher RPM before valve float can occur and more compact components allow a shallower angle between the valves, which in turn creates more space for ports, as well as a flatter and more compact combustion chamber.

All in all. the electronic rev limiter is a Godsend for these modern engines, these things will save an engine from failure resulting from all but the most determined and destructive individuals. I would avoid the rev limiter if possible. However, if you are one who regularly tests the limiter (for whatever reason), you should be prepared for more frequent and more intensive maintenance.

Thanks. I was always wondering about this. You hear different opinions, your makes the most sense.

 

[HBarlow]

I previously owned two new Honda Goldwings, a 2010 and a 2014. The Honda service schedule required checking the valve clearances at a regular interval and shimming if needed. I had the checks done as part of the routine service but they rarely needed new shims.

My Pioneer has over 1800 miles on the odometer and has been serviced iaw the Honda schedule. Valve adjustment has not been necessary.

If you drive your P1K hard and use high rpm it's more likely to need valve adjustment. You should be able to hear the clatter if adjustment is needed.

 

[Red21]

Thanks to everyone for all the great information. Very helpful!

 

[StewB]

I believe in Jack Handey and his Deep Thoughts.

Do CRV or Pilot owners discuss this? . . . is this going to happen to my Toyota, to my Ryobi weedeater? . . . why am I now worried about my Honda HRX (a mower)? Explaining valve float is like explaining carburetor vapor lock to your kids: there's no question that both exist.

Why is valve float a topic for modern UTV's and vapor lock a relic of the past?

Talk amongst yourselves.