P500 Pioneer 500 No Go No Mo...

[bigbore]

Sounds like you are progressing through your troubleshooting.

I'm trying to walk it down, this is the deepest I've been into mechanics in a few decades. I wish I had more time to spend on the problem but I have to carve out a few hours at a time when I can get them. It's about time I became a little more familiar with modern mechanics.

I hope people find it interesting and entertaining. Personally, I get a confidence boost seeing others tackle these mechanical issues so maybe I'll even inspire someone to get in over their head too.

 

[bigbore]

Update 8:

I tested the pump unit last week but didn't have time to edit the picture and post.

I used a portable power unit and sacrificed one of the many accessory cords supplied with it to cobble together a power supply I could test with outdoors in case of........................uh, an accident. The pump unit flowed great. The manual recommends attaching a pressure gauge but I don't have one. The UTV has VERY low mileage and the pump does seem to check out so I'll assume it is not the problem.

Here is the power rig. I stripped the leads and used very small heat shrink to hold them on the plug terminals. I tried to source 1.5 mm crimp leads but this was quick, easy and effective.



I used fuel from the tank for the test so that I could verify that there were no impurities like water. The fuel looked good but I'm going to drain the tank and use fresh fuel anyway. I'll reassemble with a fresh gasket in the next week or so.

So far, the only clue I have is the blown fuse. I'm going to look at the injector and engine control module after one attempt to start with fresh gas.

 

[bigbore]

Update 9:

Friday I reassembled my tank after a thorough drain and cleanout. I made sure everything was squeaky clean and assembled with a new gasket. The gasket was backordered and I have been working a lot of hours at the paying job so it has been a while since I've worked on the Honda. The manual recommends reassembling with a new gasket but in hindsight, the used gasket was VERY serviceable with a light washing in detergent. It looks and feels like a huge green Buna O-ring but I'm not sure. The cost was about $6 + $10 to ship.



Cleaned and buttoned up.



I was researching the problem online and stumbled on a couple of threads that detail an injector electrical plug problem that was common. This is supposed to be so common that there is an aftermarket plug with 6" leads for sale for $20. I'm going to disconnect the fuel line at the throttle body and see if it spurts gas then test the voltage at the injector plug next. The injector plug wires seem secure.🤷‍♂️

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Update 9:

Friday I reassembled my tank after a thorough drain and cleanout. I made sure everything was squeaky clean and assembled with a new gasket. The gasket was backordered and I have been working a lot of hours at the paying job so it has been a while since I've worked on the Honda. The manual recommends reassembling with a new gasket but in hindsight, the used gasket was VERY serviceable with a light washing in detergent. It looks and feels like a huge green Buna O-ring but I'm not sure. The cost was about $6 + $10 to ship.

View attachment 220610

Cleaned and buttoned up.

View attachment 220611

I was researching the problem online and stumbled on a coupled of threads that detail an injector electrical plug problem that was common. This is supposed to be so common that there is an aftermarket plug with 6" leads for sale for $20. I'm going to disconnect the fuel line at the throttle body and see if it spurts gas then test the voltage at the plug next.

I think the injector issue was with the 1000's, but I could be wrong and it definitely never hurts to check.

 

[lee]

Check the wires harness by the battery box.
The harness drops out of the box then goes behind a vertical frame member and heads to the front.
I heard if the harness is not tucked up close the engine can rub the wires and give mystery symptoms, like never the same thing twice.
Just rub your hand on the back side of the harness bundle, if you feel tape and corrugated tube it's not that.

 

[bigbore]

I think the injector issue was with the 1000's, but I could be wrong and it definitely never hurts to check.

Yes, I believe you are correct about that.

 

[bigbore]

Check the wires harness by the battery box.
The harness drops out of the box then goes behind a vertical frame member and heads to the front.
I heard if the harness is not tucked up close the engine can rub the wires and give mystery symptoms, like never the same thing twice.
Just rub your hand on the back side of the harness bundle, if you feel tape and corrugated tube it's not that.

I'll give that a check. I did have the blown fuse so something was shorted or was drawing too much current.

I probably should have started by disconnecting the fuel line at the throttle body. I've confirmed spark so everything seems to point to no fuel, not even a pop when I'm trying to crank. If I have fuel to the injector I suspect it has something to do with the injector system: the circuit that feeds it, the control module or the injector itself.

 

[bigbore]

Update 10:

I got it started.🤷‍♂️

I checked the voltage at the injector plug which was 10.8, filled the tank with fresh gas, hooked up a battery charger in "start" mode and it cranked. Although I don't know why it wasn't starting, at least I didn't break anything trying to figure it out.

 

[25yrds]

So, have you actually checked voltage at battery when doing all of these tests? Bought mine new a year after it was actually built. Lots of problems with it starting. Cranked for a long time but just wouldn't fire. Couldn't believe battery was bad, it would crank for literally 2 minutes without spark or fuel. Changed battery out and now it starts almost instantly!

 

[bigbore]

So, have you actually checked voltage at battery when doing all of these tests? Bought mine new a year after it was actually built. Lots of problems with it starting. Cranked for a long time but just wouldn't fire. Couldn't believe battery was bad, it would crank for literally 2 minutes without spark or fuel. Changed battery out and now it starts almost instantly!

Yes I have checked the battery voltage a few times. The voltage was 12 volts + which is a little on the low side but should have been adequate. The battery was below 12 volts when I attached the battery charger yesterday. The 10.8 voltage at the injector plug struck me as low and the battery was displayed as 11.3 by the battery charger which is close to dead; a crank before attaching the charger confirmed that..

I recently changed the battery to a lithium-ion battery, it worked fine for a few months with no problems until this no-start. I was using a battery boost pack to augment the new Honda battery during testing so I would think it should have been adequate, but I will admit I wasn't checking voltage every time I attempted a start. The battery is my number one hypothesis for the failure and I will be watching it carefully. If I have another fail to start and the charger in start mode starts it I will probably go back to a lead acid OEM.

 

[Mudder]

Excellent posts on your effort. There has been a few cases of good battery voltage, but failed under load test. P500 seems sensitive to battery condition. I once had a bad voltage regulator which fried the battery at 16v output, causing the case to bulge out.

 

[Smitty335]

Excellent posts on your effort. There has been a few cases of good battery voltage, but failed under load test. P500 seems sensitive to battery condition. I once had a bad voltage regulator which fried the battery at 16v output, causing the case to bulge out.

This that's what is wrong with me, my case is bulging out, where's my voltage regulator? HA!

 

[bigbore]

Excellent posts on your effort. There has been a few cases of good battery voltage, but failed under load test. P500 seems sensitive to battery condition. I once had a bad voltage regulator which fried the battery at 16v output, causing the case to bulge out.

Thanks. I didn't see many posts from a search that looked similar. I like to get as much information out to the public as possible for the obvious reason that it may save someone some trouble and expense, and these things interest us hobbyist riders.

I'll take this opportunity to clarify one small point, my starter always worked. I read back through some of my posts to make sure I wasn't repeating things and used the word "crank" to mean "run. "It wouldn't crank" or "I couldn't get it to crank". The starter always cranked the engine, it just wouldn't start and run.

Today I checked all of my connections and buttoned up the interior seat pans and plastic shields. I need to clean mildew off the seats and interior, take it for a run around the yard to flow some gear oil after a long sit and hopefully I'll have an Everglades ride video next week that won't include a long walk in.🐊🦝🕷🐝🐍🌛⛈🥾👣

 

[bigbore]

It has been a while.

I've been distracted with some unforeseen events and haven't had time to ride. The UTV has been sitting with a 15 minute run every 4 weeks just to keep the wheel bearings from freezing-up.🕸

I did my monthly run tonight, prepared to check the battery voltage and jump if necessary but it started right up on the first crank! The last thing I did--while troubleshooting the original problem--before attaching a battery charger in 25 amp jumpstart mode was to pull the throttle body injector plug for testing and then reseat it. I'm starting to suspect this may have been the problem similar to the HP700 plug problem. Maybe some corrosion?

I expect to ride within the next month putting it to a real test. Stay tuned.

 

[KYhillbilly]

Glad your back on the trail.

 

[bigbore]

Today was the culmination of the months of effort and frustration. It is beautiful down here in Miami so I dusted off the P500 and took it out for its first shakedown run since it started(the UTV, not the problem) in October.

The good news is it has started 6 times out of 6 on the first try, 5 of those being today. The bad news for me was the trail I chose was unexpectedly wet. "Bigbore, suck it up and ride!" Well, I did, just not on that trail. I rode the access road to the trail just to take the Pioneer for a good shakedown run. The entire ride was about an hour and a half with 5 perfect starts. I took some video that I will edit into a short ride video and will recommend you watch with a warm glass of milk at bedtime. 🌛 🐑🐑🐑

When I say the trail was wet, it started with an average of 10" of water. Now, I don't mean a puddle here and there, I mean the trail was under 10" of water. I was still going to ride it if the axles stayed out of water--I'm running 22" tires--but I bailed when the water depth had increased to the point of flooding the UTV cab. I had on my approved Honda riding gear(sandals & white athletic socks) and turned around when my socks got wet.

I make the videos to document my rides but in all seriousness it won't be the most riveting adventure I've been on.

I just thought I'd follow-up.🎅

PS My tires may be taller, I forget, but my water depth indicator alarm went off(socks).⏰

 

[bigbore]

I chopped, and sped up and chopped some more but 20 minutes was as short as I could get it down to.

For your entertainment?

PS Every time I refer to the height of the water, insert "for this time of year". During the rainy season it probably attains similar levels.

 

[Josec45]

What is the fix for this issue?

 

[Remington]

What is the fix for this issue?

This thread is over 2 yrs old and the OP hasnt been on the forum since April of 21’

Welcome to the forum from Michigan and congrats on your first ever post since joining in March of 21’ 👍 🥳

If your having an issue, I would suggest starting a new thread to get more comprehensive answers to your problem. Also post pics of your rig and issue, this will help you get answers. Good luck.