P500 Valve seal replacement, anyone?

[ehart814]

After quite a while of minor oil consumption, I have come to the conclusion that my problem is most likely valve seals.

I have seen my 500 puff smoke a few times. If I allow it to idle for a couple minutes or more, it will puff smoke when I first take off.

It will also puff smoke after engine braking going down a hill. When I get back on the gas, smoke puffs out.

These two conditions tell me that the engine is sucking oil in when in a high vacuum condition - when the throttle is closed. When I open the throttle again, the oil is burned causing the smoke. I have also noticed that it takes a few extra cranks to start the engine and I wonder if the little bit of oil is contributing to that issue.

I might try switching oil in the short term and see if that makes much of a difference, but I doubt it will help.

I am very surprised that the valve seals are leaking, since I take very good care of it.

Has anyone here done this job, or had it done?? I have read others here with the same problem.


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[Admin]

 

[trigger]

After quite a while of minor oil consumption, I have come to the conclusion that my problem is most likely valve seals.

I have seen my 500 puff smoke a few times. If I allow it to idle for a couple minutes or more, it will puff smoke when I first take off.

It will also puff smoke after engine braking going down a hill. When I get back on the gas, smoke puffs out.

These two conditions tell me that the engine is sucking oil in when in a high vacuum condition - when the throttle is closed. When I open the throttle again, the oil is burned causing the smoke. I have also noticed that it takes a few extra cranks to start the engine and I wonder if the little bit of oil is contributing to that issue.

I might try switching oil in the short term and see if that makes much of a difference, but I doubt it will help.

I am very surprised that the valve seals are leaking, since I take very good care of it.

Has anyone here done this job, or had it done?? I have read others here with the same problem.


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Damn ehart! If someone had bought that machine from you they would've already had to replace the starter and now the valve seals?

 

[DG Rider]

After quite a while of minor oil consumption, I have come to the conclusion that my problem is most likely valve seals.

I have seen my 500 puff smoke a few times. If I allow it to idle for a couple minutes or more, it will puff smoke when I first take off.

It will also puff smoke after engine braking going down a hill. When I get back on the gas, smoke puffs out.

These two conditions tell me that the engine is sucking oil in when in a high vacuum condition - when the throttle is closed. When I open the throttle again, the oil is burned causing the smoke. I have also noticed that it takes a few extra cranks to start the engine and I wonder if the little bit of oil is contributing to that issue.

I might try switching oil in the short term and see if that makes much of a difference, but I doubt it will help.

I am very surprised that the valve seals are leaking, since I take very good care of it.

Has anyone here done this job, or had it done?? I have read others here with the same problem.


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How many miles? What oil? How much consumption?

This wouldn't be a huge job with the right tools. TDC with the cylinder pressurized with the special adaptor ( to hold the valves seated ). Valve spring compressor. The valve cover is nothing tricky.

 

[70Bones]

In general, if it smokes when accelerating, the rings are leaking by, and if it smokes when decelerating, it's the valve seals. Of course, leaking valve seals will cause smoke at start up also. Have you looked at the spark plug to see if the electrode is blackened? Interested in seeing the answers to DG's questions also.

 

[ehart814]

Amsoil 10w-40 since the first oil change. Every 500 (or less) miles since. That’s why I’m so surprised by this. I’ve used Amsoil in lots of machines without any problem till now. I’ve also been very good about changing the air filter. I have 3 that I clean and re oil

It has over 3400 miles now. Due for an oil change soon


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[ehart814]

The consumption seems to vary. I’ve added over a quart in the last 400 or so miles tho.

I changed the plug recently and it looked fine. Not sooted up.

I don’t notice smoke when I first start it. I’ll try to pay more attention next time

It runs perfect other than the slightly hard starting


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[DG Rider]

A quart every 400...? Yeah, that seems like a bit much.
It's just something that happens. Tolerances stack up one way or the other and sometimes...

It might be worth trying another brand, just to see. Wouldn't be the 1st time an engine just uses brand a, but doesn't touch brand b.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Might not hurt to check the PCV setup. Should be a hose from the valve cover the airbox. To much crankcase pressure can cause issues. If u replace the valve stem seals, be sure to feel the valves in the guides for wear. Synthetic oils do tend to leak easier.

 

[DG Rider]

Well... @ehart814 , I might be another who needs this.
Too soon to tell conclusively, but checked it the other day and was surprised to see it only covering the bottom 1/3 of the crosshatch on the stick. Took about 4 ounces to fill it back up ( not 100% sure as I spilled some ). According to my calculations, this would be 1 quart every 600 miles or so.

However...after thinking, it may have been 2 rides since I checked the level, which would make the consumption pretty low. Checking after today's ride seems to support this, with only a small drop on the stick in about 70 miles. I should also note that I am due for a oil change, so maybe that contributes to it.

Under prolonged engine braking, I get the oil burning smell (but no visible smoke) in the exhaust, but then again, the machine had always done this (and prior to now, never used a drop of oil), as did the 2 other 500's I've driven.

I'm at 2400 miles.

 

[ehart814]

Something to keep in mind. I have found that the level on the dipstick is very much affected by how level the machine is. Being a little bit off-level makes a big difference in the dipstick! I live on a hillside so it’s always tough for me to find a level spot.


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[DG Rider]

Something to keep in mind. I have found that the level on the dipstick is very much affected by how level the machine is. Being a little bit off-level makes a big difference in the dipstick! I live on a hillside so it’s always tough for me to find a level spot.


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Yes. I'm purposely performing the check at the same spot with the exact same procedure. I really wish Honda would use a sight glass....

 

[ehart814]

I did dump the oil over the weekend. Switched to GN4 conventional 10w-40. After the change I put probably 20 miles on, mostly road miles. I did notice the smell when riding. Haven’t checked the oil since then.


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[DG Rider]

I did dump the oil over the weekend. Switched to GN4 conventional 10w-40. After the change I put probably 20 miles on, mostly road miles. I did notice the smell when riding. Haven’t checked the oil since then.


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Every one I've driven had that smell.

 

[DG Rider]

Did about 70 miles yesterday on fresh oil. Last few miles back to the truck are all nice road, so I put it on the rev limiter for most of it (AKA - ran the s*** out of it ).

Checked the oil moments ago, and doesn't appear to have used a drop. Strange...but i thought it might do this.

 

[WillyBill]

Did about 70 miles yesterday on fresh oil. Last few miles back to the truck are all nice road, so I put it on the rev limiter for most of it (AKA - ran the s*** out of it ).

Checked the oil moments ago, and doesn't appear to have used a drop. Strange...but i thought it might do this.

Mine burns a little bit but ONLY when doing lots of severe engine braking. ( Lots of downshifts against the rev limiter on steep hills).

WB

 

[HondaTech]

Honda had oil consumption issues with Goldwings a few years back when switching to synthetic at the first service, the rings hadnt bedded in yet apparently.

I dont believe ive ever just replaced valve seals on any Honda engine, unless there was was head work to be done as well and i was already there. Their General Purpose engines most generally dont use a Intake Valve seal at all.

 

[DG Rider]

Mine burns a little bit but ONLY when doing lots of severe engine braking. ( Lots of downshifts against the rev limiter on steep hills).

WB

You nailed what I had been suspecting, but have yet to confirm.