What is best brand for axle replacment?

[Fusefinder]

I have a 2019 Talon X with 1000 miles. I have an intermittent sound in my rear end that sounds like a bad CV joint. The problem is, now they all feel good and I can't determine which one has the issue. (Currently all stock on tires wheels and suspension, except Bandit tender springs) So I am looking to buy a rear replacement axle to have one on hand.
What brand is everyone using, what are your likes / dislikes and why?
Thanks!

 

[Admin]

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Honestly, the stock Honda axles are the best.

 

[Dankathy]

I had a 2019 r with the popping noise, came to the conclusion it was a very small amount of slack in lots of different suspension joints. It had 16000 miles on it when i sold it, still going strong and not getting any worse.

 

[HondaTech]

I have a 2019 Talon X with 1000 miles. I have an intermittent sound in my rear end that sounds like a bad CV joint. The problem is, now they all feel good and I can't determine which one has the issue. (Currently all stock on tires wheels and suspension, except Bandit tender springs) So I am looking to buy a rear replacement axle to have one on hand.
What brand is everyone using, what are your likes / dislikes and why?
Thanks!

We've replaced several with this noise that seems to be most noticeable when the unit is first moved after sitting.

Our race car has had the noise for almost 2 seasons and its still not failed.

Ive personally torn apart several and cant find any "issues" with any of them. This is probably the reason Honda isnt replacing noisy axles anymore.

 

[toddvdh]

Mine clicks after sitting for a week. It seems to go away after driving for a little.

 

[Murfdawg]

I have the same noise now also. I didn't have it until I put Bandit Tender Springs in. I think it is the springs moving around, especially sense there is new paint on the springs. Everything seams to be working fine as of now.

 

[highpocket74]

I have a 2019 Talon X with 1000 miles. I have an intermittent sound in my rear end that sounds like a bad CV joint. The problem is, now they all feel good and I can't determine which one has the issue. (Currently all stock on tires wheels and suspension, except Bandit tender springs) So I am looking to buy a rear replacement axle to have one on hand.
What brand is everyone using, what are your likes / dislikes and why?
Thanks!

My talon (1500 miles) does this too when I first begin riding. Then it goes away after a little while. Nothing seema to be wrong with the axle though. I"m going to drive it till it needs replacement or breaks.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I wonder if the noise is caused by the grease settling to the bottom of the boots after the machine sits for a while, and at initial movement the balls that were above the grease line are not lubed and click until the grease makes its way back between them? These diffs and CV's do get hot enough to liquefy grease if you are tooling along on streets/trails for any length of time so that may be it.

Anyone with the clicking noise try different CV grease?

 

[PaulF]

I wonder if the noise is caused by the grease settling to the bottom of the boots after the machine sits for a while, and at initial movement the balls that were above the grease line are not lubed and click until the grease makes its way back between them? These diffs and CV's do get hot enough to liquefy grease if you are tooling along on streets/trails for any length of time so that may be it.

Anyone with the clicking noise try different CV grease?

Mine has been noisy when cold for the last 1,000 miles, I just ignore it. After a few minutes of riding, it quiets down.

I am going to tear the inner joints apart and check for wear next week when mine gets back from getting the fuel pump replaced. I will check your theory and see if all the grease has settled into the boot and let you know. Personally, I think they might be undergreased but that is just my opinion.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Mine has been noisy when cold for the last 1,000 miles, I just ignore it. After a few minutes of riding, it quiets down.

I am going to tear the inner joints apart and check for wear next week when mine gets back from getting the fuel pump replaced. I will check your theory and see if all the grease has settled into the boot and let you know. Personally, I think they might be undergreased but that is just my opinion.

The under greasing thing could be very possible, I've never seen the inside of one personally so I can't say either way. I'm looking forward to reading about what you find when you get the joints apart. I know you have the OCD's and will check everything 1000% and if something is there you are going to find it. 😎

I think if it's going to end up being grease settling into the boot and away from the joint it would most likely affect the inboard joints and not the outers due to the downward angle on the shafts at ride height and the grease being more apt to leak down hill into the inner boot. If both our theories prove to be correct that would compound the problem.

 

[HondaTech]

Mine has been noisy when cold for the last 1,000 miles, I just ignore it. After a few minutes of riding, it quiets down.

I am going to tear the inner joints apart and check for wear next week when mine gets back from getting the fuel pump replaced. I will check your theory and see if all the grease has settled into the boot and let you know. Personally, I think they might be undergreased but that is just my opinion.

New axles dont come assembled ao we have to put grease in the inner joint. Even those axles have come back with the same issue.

My GMs race car has cryo treated and polished joints with Redline CV2 grease, 300M shafts and their still noisy when first moved. Its beyond me why they do it.

 

[PaulF]

The under greasing thing could be very possible, I've never seen the inside of one personally so I can't say either way. I'm looking forward to reading about what you find when you get the joints apart. I know you have the OCD's and will check everything 1000% and if something is there you are going to find it. 😎

I think if it's going to end up being grease settling into the boot and away from the joint it would most likely affect the inboard joints and not the outers due to the downward angle on the shafts at ride height and the grease being more apt to leak down hill into the inner boot. If both our theories prove to be correct that would compound the problem.

Finally got the right axle apart. Although the grease was a bit thin for my liking, the joint seemed well coated. However, there are visible signs of problems and obvious why they make noise.

The outer joint was tight and looked just fine. The inner is another story. The outer housing showed some minor (normal) wear but nothing that made me worry. However, the inner race and Balls are toast. I have never seen cv balls turn black like that and I am going to say it is heat related. I think that either the lube they use is garbage or the tolerances are too tight and cause heat and premature wear (or maybe a little of both)...

Here is the most damaged part of the race. The scarring is on the forward drive side, reverse side just shows normal wear. The little, out of focus part is a metal fragment from the race...

The balls tell more of the story. Left is the inner (bad) joint and right is the outer. Black and pitted/scarred tell me a bit of heat was generated at one time...

UGH, another bad Honda engineered/manufactured part. This $HIT (and the driveline crap) are so basic and easy to solve, doesn't Honda have any forensic engineers???

 

[PaulF]

@HondaTech, there are new boot, band and axle part numbers, do you know what the difference is and if the new design is any better than the old?

Anyone here ever try Monster Axel XP Series? I have seen these for several years and cannot seem to find any reviews on them. Interesting concept of using a fixed joint on both ends to eliminate the problems associated with a plunge joint and using a slip spline on the shaft instead. Are they trading one problem for another?...

Monster Axles Rear CV Axle for Honda Talon 1000R 2019-2021, XP Series

The Monster Axles™ XP Series axle is designed to be stronger, longer lasting, and more dependable, no matter where you ride. A high-performance axle that can fit stock length all the way

atvpc.com

 

[Dankathy]

Finally got the right axle apart. Although the grease was a bit thin for my liking, the joint seemed well coated. However, there are visible signs of problems and obvious why they make noise.

The outer joint was tight and looked just fine. The inner is another story. The outer housing showed some minor (normal) wear but nothing that made me worry. However, the inner race and Balls are toast. I have never seen cv balls turn black like that and I am going to say it is heat related. I think that either the lube they use is garbage or the tolerances are too tight and cause heat and premature wear (or maybe a little of both)...

Here is the most damaged part of the race. The scarring is on the forward drive side, reverse side just shows normal wear. The little, out of focus part is a metal fragment from the race...

View attachment 304727


The balls tell more of the story. Left is the inner (bad) joint and right is the outer. Black and pitted/scarred tell me a bit of heat was generated at one time...

View attachment 304728

UGH, another bad Honda engineered/manufactured part. This $HIT (and the driveline crap) are so basic and easy to solve, doesn't Honda have any forensic engineers???

How many miles on this machine?

 

[Dankathy]

@HondaTech, there are new boot, band and axle part numbers, do you know what the difference is and if the new design is any better than the old?

Anyone here ever try Monster Axel XP Series? I have seen these for several years and cannot seem to find any reviews on them. Interesting concept of using a fixed joint on both ends to eliminate the problems associated with a plunge joint and using a slip spline on the shaft instead. Are they trading one problem for another?...

Monster Axles Rear CV Axle for Honda Talon 1000R 2019-2021, XP Series

The Monster Axles™ XP Series axle is designed to be stronger, longer lasting, and more dependable, no matter where you ride. A high-performance axle that can fit stock length all the way

atvpc.com

This concept was supposed to be the cure all to replace the $300 or so (each) cv joints in the sand cars, in practice it became somewhat clear that when the splines are under load they don't slip. The resulting axial load was very hard on the transmission side bearings. These bearings also of course support the ring gear, so if not caught in time would destroy the gear set. Hard to believe what a ring and pinion cost for a mendeola s4😱. Not sure what this has to do with a talon, but if i can get 15-20000 miles on the honda ones i'm ok.

 

[PaulF]

How many miles on this machine?

4300, they started making noise about 1000 miles ago.

 

[PaulF]

This concept was supposed to be the cure all to replace the $300 or so (each) cv joints in the sand cars, in practice it became somewhat clear that when the splines are under load they don't slip. The resulting axial load was very hard on the transmission side bearings. These bearings also of course support the ring gear, so if not caught in time would destroy the gear set. Hard to believe what a ring and pinion cost for a mendeola s4😱. Not sure what this has to do with a talon, but if i can get 15-20000 miles on the honda ones i'm ok.

That is what I was afraid of.

If we could get 15,000 miles, I would just throw in another stock set. But there are many that have gotten noisy with low miles and even some with only a few hundred miles on them. The aftermarkets (even some Rhino 2) are doing the same thing so there may be something inherently wrong with the Talon design or the aftermarket is just using the same junk Honda does. After all, that inner joint is HUGE for a 100 HP side by side. I have seen cars with smaller joints but cars don't get the same abuse.

My driving style (especially at the dunes) may have contributed to their early demise. I like to "hop" off of small hills and just keep my foot on the skinny pedal. most of the time it results it simply throwing sand back 30 feet but a couple of times the wheels were spinning pretty fast when I reconnected with the sand and I experienced a "bang" upon landing. One time it was loud enough for me to stop and check to see if I had broken an axle.

I think I will ease up on this possible destructive practice.................... NOT!!!!

 

[CID]

My R has started popping recently when cold (40* temps) and high traction surfaces - 4000 miles.

 

[Dankathy]

Like many others, i have a popping noise coming from the rear "somewhere". Have looked for it repeatedly but failed to isolate it. I have quite a bit of experience with the sand cars, and identifying a bad cv is not unknown to me but no success here. I have been continuing to run it with the let it develop approach and i do think its getting worse. Fast forward to today (about 5000 miles since I first heard it) i decided to pull the shocks off to reseal them again. About 15000 total miles on the machine, 8000 or so since the last time the shocks were resealed. With the shocks off and the machine blocked up at ride height so that there is no pressure on anything i went through all of the joints, pivots etc. With a pry bar and found what i had come to expect- lots of joints with a small amount of movement but none really bad. I believe that whats going on is in a tight corner on hard surfaces everything binds up and then relaxes with a pop when the tires slip. Going to the 32's made this noise worse- lots of side wall flex. The worst joints i found were the front uppers. Not real suprising in that they are subjected to a lot of axial thrust. Was going to replace them and found that honda does not service these joints separately and i am not ready to do a wholesale replacement of all of the rear suspension arms. Hope the aftermarket addresses this before i have to start changing parts. Lots of money involved here real quick at $300 or so per arm. I am back to the let it develop thing. Wheel bearings show about 1/16in movement at the wheel, i am going to continue to run them. Just my findings, as always your milage may vary.

Old stuff, still pertinent. Most certainly not the same findings as paulf! One other step i took was i pulled the jeep up a fairly steep incline on asphalt to try to locate the noise- asphalt so no gravel crunching noise to confuse the issue, incline to increase the load. If it doesn't pop then, i don't believe it's a cv. Mine were quiet, unhooked the jeep, turned a tight corner to go home and it sounded like a machine gun.

 

[JACKAL]

Finally got the right axle apart. Although the grease was a bit thin for my liking, the joint seemed well coated. However, there are visible signs of problems and obvious why they make noise.

The outer joint was tight and looked just fine. The inner is another story. The outer housing showed some minor (normal) wear but nothing that made me worry. However, the inner race and Balls are toast. I have never seen cv balls turn black like that and I am going to say it is heat related. I think that either the lube they use is garbage or the tolerances are too tight and cause heat and premature wear (or maybe a little of both)...

Here is the most damaged part of the race. The scarring is on the forward drive side, reverse side just shows normal wear. The little, out of focus part is a metal fragment from the race...

View attachment 304727


The balls tell more of the story. Left is the inner (bad) joint and right is the outer. Black and pitted/scarred tell me a bit of heat was generated at one time...

View attachment 304728

UGH, another bad Honda engineered/manufactured part. This $HIT (and the driveline crap) are so basic and easy to solve, doesn't Honda have any forensic engineers???

So your having a specific issue, could it be related to increased ride height or bigger tires, both of which will generate additional heat. You have to look at the bigger picture, if it is a systematic design shortcomings how do people get 16k and 25k miles without failure?