Wheel Bearing Replacement Problems

CID

CID

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@#$%& Murphy's Law. :mad:

On my recent Moab trip, I developed a soft brake pedal but only for one pump, at which time the pedal was solid. I mentioned the soft pedal to @PaulF , first guess, air in system and he had noticed that my i4wd didn't seem to be working properly, something I can't see from the driver's seat. But when I told him that one pump would return it to normal he immediately said - "Bad wheel bearing." Huh? "Yep, the bad bearing is allowing the rotor to wiggle which pushes the pads back into the caliper, the one soft pump pushes them back out and things are normal for another few revolutions.

When I got home, jacked it up and, sure enough, the LR bearing was bad. So today was replace the rear bearings but Murphy never sleeps. :mad:

Having forgotten how it came apart when I replaced the LR inner CV joint, I was confused when the rotor wouldn't pull off after removing the axle nut. A quick trip to YouTube University and, sure enough, it should slide right off. Well, it didn't. 😢 Out with the pry bar, and no matter how hard I leaned on it, no movement. So I found a way to use the bar like a slide hammer, still no love but at least I knew that damn rotor should slide off. So I persisted, after 'forever' I looked behind the hub and saw a ~.030" gap where I had wiped the grease off (I had pulled the hub off of the axle, so I could see behind the bearing).

Now that I had movement, I just kept banging away on the pry bar. I got it about halfway out of the bearing, noticing that the machined hub surface was badly galled and then ... it popped right off ... sometin' ain't rite here ... :oops:
I BgqKwSz X2


That's supposed to be a smooth, shiny surface. :eek: I ride in the desert (first choice) and high country when the desert gets too damn hot; not 'much' water but some and I don't mind riding through it. Apparently 'some' is too much.
I Rr4V2N6 X2


I don't think it's supposed to look like this. 🤔 You can see where I was slide hammering the pry bar.
I CJTLVvZ X2


All this to ask @HondaTech (or anyone who knows) how the hub comes off of this bolt. If it's tapered like a ball joint, I'm going to need something to make that come apart? So instead of heading back to Utah, I'll be waiting for hubs and rotors (it's apart and the rotors have seen better days after 10,900 miles). 😭
I NZnGXqC X2
 
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H

HondaTech

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@#$%& Murphy's Law. :mad:

On my recent Moab trip, I developed a soft brake pedal but only for one pump, at which time the pedal was solid. I mentioned the soft pedal to @PaulF , first guess, air in system and he had noticed that my i4wd didn't seem to be working properly, something I can't see from the driver's seat. But when I told him that one pump would return it to normal he immediately said - "Bad wheel bearing." Huh? "Yep, the bad bearing is allowing the rotor to wiggle which pushes the pads back into the caliper, the one soft pump pushes them back out and things are normal for another few revolutions.

When I got home, jacked it up and, sure enough, the LR bearing was bad. So today was replace the rear bearings but Murphy never sleeps. :mad:

Having forgotten how it came apart when I replaced the LR inner CV joint, I was confused when the rotor wouldn't pull off after removing the axle nut. A quick trip to YouTube University and, sure enough, it should slide right off. Well, it didn't. 😢 Out with the pry bar, and no matter how hard I leaned on it, no movement. So I found a way to use the bar like a slide hammer, still no love but at least I knew that damn rotor should slide off. So I persisted, after 'forever' I looked behind the hub and saw a ~.030" gap where I had wiped the grease off (I had pulled the hub off of the axle, so I could see behind the bearing).

Now that I had movement, I just kept banging away on the pry bar. I got it about halfway out of the bearing, noticing that the machined hub surface was badly galled and then ... it popped right off ... sometin' ain't rite here ... :oops:
View attachment 387353

That's supposed to be a smooth, shiny surface. :eek: I ride in the desert (first choice) and high country when the desert gets too damn hot; not 'much' water but some and I don't mind riding through it. Apparently 'some' is too much.
View attachment 387354

I don't think it's supposed to look like this. 🤔 You can see where I was slide hammering the pry bar.
View attachment 387355

All this to ask @HondaTech (or anyone who knows) how the hub comes off of this bolt. If it's tapered like a ball joint, I'm going to need something to make that come apart? So instead of heading back to Utah, I'll be waiting for hubs and rotors (it's apart and the rotors have seen better days after 10,900 miles). 😭
View attachment 387356

It's just another balljoint.

16841063160458520699592934563598
 
D

Dankathy

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I just left the nut on very loosely and gave the back side a good rap with a hammer and brass punch, popped right apart. This was exactly my failure in quartzsite. Ron aryers had hubs quickly at $90ish, seems like rotors were 150, i put mine back on. Don't really understand why our hubs fretted like this if the axle nuts were tight. Assume you're doing both sides? Hope you get to hanksville before it gets hot
 
Smitty335

Smitty335

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I just left the nut on very loosely and gave the back side a good rap with a hammer and brass punch, popped right apart. This was exactly my failure in quartzsite. Ron aryers had hubs quickly at $90ish, seems like rotors were 150, i put mine back on. Don't really understand why our hubs fretted like this if the axle nuts were tight. Assume you're doing both sides? Hope you get to hanksville before it gets hot
Musta been the I4WD! HA!
 
CID

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I just left the nut on very loosely and gave the back side a good rap with a hammer and brass punch, popped right apart. This was exactly my failure in quartzsite. Ron aryers had hubs quickly at $90ish, seems like rotors were 150, i put mine back on. Don't really understand why our hubs fretted like this if the axle nuts were tight. Assume you're doing both sides? Hope you get to hanksville before it gets hot
Thanks Dan but today's problems let me know that by the time hubs get there, so will have the heat in Utah. 😢

You can bet I'll give the hub a good coat of grease before putting it back together (and that may have been the problem, I didn't do that when I reassembled it with the CV replacement).

I bought all 4 wheel bearings but today was a trial. Not looking forward to the other three corners. :(

Thanks for the Ron Ayers recommendation, I'd thought you had supply issues on your hubs. ~$150 for rotors - :oops:, mine are bad enough that I'd rather not reuse them, mostly because of our environment.

I still can't believe we were both in Quartzsite at the same time. Grrrrrrr.
 
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HondaTech

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I'm wondering if the issue could've been the hub nut loosening

Honda increased the CV joint spline stub diameter to increase the nut size and clamping load on axle for 2022 models. They had issues with the axle shearing off due to it coming loose. I've taken a hub nuts off and it's obvious the nut has spun a bit due to the cotter pin being about impossible to remove.
 
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Dankathy

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Brass punch and hammer was applied to the back of the knuckle to get it off the tapered ball joint. If you're doing all four, i expect you'll find access to a press for the bearings. I did two with a hammer, learned a few new bad words. If you install new ones with a hammer, shock waves will spit the grease out of your new bearings. I reused the rotors because rmatv tusk pads are about $17 per corner
 
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Dankathy

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I'm wondering if the issue could've been the hub nut loosening

Honda increased the CV joint spline stub diameter to increase the nut size and clamping load on axle for 2022 models. They had issues with the axle shearing off due to it coming loose. I've taken a hub nuts off and it's obvious the nut has spun a bit due to the cotter pin being about impossible to remove.
I think i saw one time you said torque axle nuts to 100lbs then tighter to the next cotter hole, is this correct.? Is tighter better? Both of my rear axle nuts were loose, one to the point i could move the washer with my fingers. This was at about 16k-17k miles, installed loose at the factory or something wore 🤷‍♂️ changed bearings at 20k
 
CID

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I just left the nut on very loosely and gave the back side a good rap with a hammer and brass punch, popped right apart. This was exactly my failure in quartzsite. Ron aryers had hubs quickly at $90ish, seems like rotors were 150, i put mine back on. Don't really understand why our hubs fretted like this if the axle nuts were tight. Assume you're doing both sides? Hope you get to hanksville before it gets hot
Dan (anyone) - did your replacement hub(s) come with the studs installed? The Ayers fiche doesn't look like they do. Hard/easy? Neighbor has a press so I'll be good either way.
 
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bigshoe

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The cause of a race burning onto a hub is due play and or the inner ball bearings locking up causing the race to spin on the hub causing heat & friction literally burning the race on the hub honestly a little heat to knock race off and some emery cloth I'd put in back on
 
CID

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  1. Talon R
I'm wondering if the issue could've been the hub nut loosening

Honda increased the CV joint spline stub diameter to increase the nut size and clamping load on axle for 2022 models. They had issues with the axle shearing off due to it coming loose. I've taken a hub nuts off and it's obvious the nut has spun a bit due to the cotter pin being about impossible to remove.
I wasn't happy with the alignment of the castle nut/cotter pin on the axle shaft when I replaced the inner CV joint, it didn't seem tight enough but going another full slot on the nut would have been a LOT tighter, so I didn't. When I removed the original cotter pin, it looked like someone had tightened the nut more after installing the cotter pin; it was a PITA to remove. It wasn't tight from the nut backing off, opposite direction.
 
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Dankathy

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  1. Talon R
Dan (anyone) - did your replacement hub(s) come with the studs installed? The Ayers fiche doesn't look like they do. Hard/easy? Neighbor has a press so I'll be good either way.
Yes, studs included
 
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Dankathy

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The cause of a race burning onto a hub is due play and or the inner ball bearings locking up causing the race to spin on the hub causing heat & friction literally burning the race on the hub honestly a little heat to knock race off and some emery cloth I'd put in back on
One of mine measured .037 undersize, other was was over .040 under
 
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CID

CID

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I did the final write up on this in the New Talon Owners thread -

 
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Boundertom

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I am a little late to this party, but when you said:
I ride in the desert (first choice) and high country when the desert gets too damn hot; not 'much' water but some and I don't mind riding through it. Apparently 'some' is too much.

I had to laugh. I seem to remember a time when you rode through "some" water! And, of course, I HAD to follow you!

Tom
 
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CID

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I am a little late to this party, but when you said:


I had to laugh. I seem to remember a time when you rode through "some" water! And, of course, I HAD to follow you!

Tom
🤣

Hi, Tom. I hope you and Val are doing well. 😍

I swear my front wheels floated across on the way back (I went further to the right and it was deeper :eek:). I didn't expect my shoes to get wet. :oops:

Tom following me across (hey, he has a winch if things went bad). :cool:
I BZHqQFG X2
 
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