New Talon Owners - First Things to Know and Check

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This isn't a 'first things to check' but I believe it will become more common as the Talons age.

I'm a short-shifter, the biggest reason I like the paddle controlled DCT so much, I use it dozens of times a day. But my 'up paddle' quit working at 10,5xx miles, 😥 this is what I found.

1680535955130


.008" of an inch - :eek:
1680536102719


This thing isn't meant to be replaced, access was difficult at best and I broke 3 plastic fasteners getting it out (you can see one on the harness, upper right). Another was on the plug itself, I had to hammer it off the frame tab using a wide bladed flat screwdriver as a punch. :mad: Those parts are on the new harness (~$27). Ignore the spring and ball bearing, they're part of the paddle itself and won't have to be removed (but I didn't know that).
1680536179191


The new harness includes the 3 plastic connectors that I broke removing it, it doesn't include the two small JIS screws (Phillips lookalikes) so don't strip yours.
1683731197042


This is how to release the plug from the frame tab but I don't see any way a human hand could possibly reach it. In the photo below this one, it's to the lower right on the plug, unreachable IMO. 🤔
1683731361275


This is after I broke it off the frame tab to the right, it would NOT slide off.
1680536380887


Under the hood cowl, above the steering column -
1680536700728


This is the release tab on the plug, a regular pair of pliers did the job, squeezing it in and allowing me to pull at the same time.
1680710436148
 
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DRZRon1

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nice direction!!!

is there 3 wires at the plug and then does it tap together inside the harness to get 2 wires to each switch, guessing a common to each switch and a return from each switch, hard to tell from the pics.....
 
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nice direction!!!

is there 3 wires at the plug and then does it tap together inside the harness to get 2 wires to each switch, guessing a common to each switch and a return from each switch, hard to tell from the pics.....
Thanks.

Yes, 3 wires at the plug and 2 at each switch - red and black at one, white and black at the other. I imagine that the blacks are tied together in the loom. There are 3 wires at the plug - a red, white and black.
 
TerryH

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Honda calls it a ROPS because it's unsuited to be called a roll cage. It's not just Honda, it's pretty much industry standard, none of them are much more than something to hold our roofs up. :oops:

This is a section cut out of a damaged ROPS by another member.
View attachment 371877

That's my pic and that was my original cage. Wasn't damaged but after seeing what it was made of we cut it up and threw it in the metal recycling bin at my work. Nobody should trust their life to that.
 
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That's my pic and that was my original cage. Wasn't damaged but after seeing what it was made of we cut it up and threw it in the metal recycling bin at my work. Nobody should trust their life to that.
I knew it was your photo but didn't want to drop your name and drag you somewhere you didn't want to go. 👍
 
CID

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Honda's recommended procedure for checking the oil level is ridiculously unrepeatable IMO.

It reads -
18. Start the engine and let it idle for 3-5 minutes.
19. Stop the engine and after 2-3 minutes, check the oil level. Make sure the oil is between the upper and lower level marks on the dipstick.

When I do an oil and filters change, I add 6.1 qt. per the manual and never look at the dipstick. 1/10th qt. is 3.2 oz. - so 6 qts, 3.2 oz.

I never use the ridiculous Honda procedure of warming up, shutting off, waiting for 2 or 3 minutes, then check oil level. WTF? I do an oil change, run the buggy long enough to saturate the filters, shut off, wait (sometimes overnight) and then check the oil with the dipstick fully seated - like you would before a ride or when sitting in the garage during the week. Idjits.

Right after an oil change, running long enough to saturate filters and letting sit overnight -
383076 f1a7aa9a92f4ff085a4ff5e2d7d6b3f9
 
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CID

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I usually run in Auto but I'm a short shifter and I'm constantly 'paddling up' (and why my paddle switch broke 😢). When I'm cruising through the desert, on fairly nice roads, it irritates me when the software thinks it should downshift mid turn. This upsets my mojo and the buggy's mojo causing all kinds of irritating behavior from both myself and the Talon. My smooth arc through the turn turns into a spastic wobble. :p I didn't want a downshift, I just wanted to apply lite throttle through the turn to keep things squared up.

I recently discovered that when I'm in Manual, the software will let the engine pull a much lower RPM and use a lot more torque before downshifting, exactly what I want. This was a real AHA moment for me. I can 'almost' ride aggressively without the dreaded midturn downshift.

Another advantage of driving in manual when climbing steeper, rocky inclines - you won't get an ill timed upshift.

An example of an unwanted upshift @ 1:00 minute, on a really short, but steep climb.
 
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Another 'later in the life of a Talon' post. Mine was at 10,900 miles.

My preferred riding is in the desert SW but that's extremely seasonal, a few weeks in the sping and another few weeks in the fall. Other than that, it's just too damn hot for humans. 🥵🥵🥵 Living in Denver, my backyard is the Rocky Mountains, and there are a lot of water crossings there. I never considered it a problem since 'most of the time' it's dry. Anytime I have to cross a stream, there's ample time for things to dry out, unlike a wet/humid climate. So I ignored water problems until -

On my recent Moab trip, I developed a soft brake pedal but only for one pump, at which time the pedal was solid. I mentioned the soft pedal to @PaulF - first guess, air in system and he had noticed that my i4wd didn't seem to be working properly (which relies on proper braking response to stop the spinning wheel), something I can't see from the driver's seat. But when I told him that one pump would return it to normal, he immediately said - "Bad wheel bearing." Huh? "Yep, the bad bearing is allowing the rotor to wiggle which pushes the pads back into the caliper, the one soft pump pushes them back out and things are normal for another few revolutions.

When I got home, jacked 'er up and, sure enough, the LR is toast. This is the story of that cluster F. :oops:

Having forgotten how it came apart when I replaced the LR inner CV joint, I was confused when the rotor wouldn't pull off after removing the axle nut. A quick trip to YouTube University and, sure enough, it should slide right off. Well, it didn't. 😢 Out with the pry bar, and no matter how hard I leaned on it, no movement. So I found a way to use the bar like a slide hammer, still no love but at least I knew that damn rotor and hub should slide off. So I persisted, after 'forever' I looked behind the hub and saw a ~.030" gap where I had wiped the grease off (I had pulled the hub off of the axle, so I could see behind the bearing).

There's a little more info in this thread, where I asked the initial question -

Now that I had movement, I just kept banging away on the pry bar. I got it about halfway out of the bearing, noticing that the machined hub surface was badly galled and then ... it popped right off ... sometin' ain't rite here ... :oops:
1685408978381


That's supposed to be a smooth, shiny surface. :eek: I ride in the desert (first choice) and high country when the desert gets too damn hot; not 'much' water but some and I don't mind riding through it. Apparently 'some' is too much.
1685409029217


It's not supposed to look like this, the bearing is one piece. 🤔 You can see where I was slide hammering the pry bar. Note the notch at the bottom, that's a drain, be sure to line up the circlip with it. Note, also, that there's no indication of water incursion, the damage is between the rotor hub and the ID of the bearing.
1685409163683


This bolt stopped me, it's tapered like a ball joint, I need to find out how it comes apart (details below). So instead of heading back to Utah, I'll be waiting for hubs and rotors (it's apart and the rotors have seen better days after 10,900 miles). 😭
1685409354591


I have to thank @hondabob for the following information. He mentioned the Harbor Fright ball joint separator and that it had to be widened to work for this application. Fortunately, I had bought it earlier, so all I had to do was grind it to fit. Item 99849. Pay attention - this thing pushes against the threaded end of the ball joint - On the first one, I put the castle nut on backwards to protect the threads BUT it didn't. So now I have a nut on backwards that won't come off because the ball joint stud is spinning, now WTF? There's no access on the back. The neighbor and I were able to push the rubber boot back, grab the taper on the ball joint with a narrow Vice Grip and get that damn nut off with a Channel Lock. On the second one, I protected the threaded end of the ball joint with a piece of steel between the separator and the ball joint threads. Grrrrr
I xF9kMnp X2


My bench grinder uses a 1" wide wheel, so I started by gently pushing the open jaw of the separator into the wheel, moving a bit side to side so it wouldn't bind. Then I used a 4-1/2" angle grinder to grind to fit by eye, close enough for a JAH. :rolleyes:
I cSpmxtb X2


I S8RqRJG X2


I jrpZNRt X2


This is the shoulder you have to straddle -
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And it's 35.92 mm wide if you want to pre grind you separator -
I XWGGPtg X2


Next step was to grind a piece of 3/8" thick steel to push against in the press to get the bearing out. I cut it 2-1/2" long and rounded the corners to fit. You can see where the largest socket I had fit the bearing, not important for removing a bad bearing but you don't want to push against the balls on a good bearing, bad juju. @Dankathy did this without a press, and I don't think he'll ever be right again. :eek: When the bearing released, it went off like a rifle shot, with two of us hanging on the handle of a 20 ton jack. A 20 ton HF press is $250 now and, after having done this, is well worth the cost. And it gives you an excuse to buy tools, which are an investment, not an expense.
I b8v39tx X2


I made another 3/8" thick piece to push the bearing back in, making sure to straddle as much of the bearing as possible. It's 2-3/4" long with rounded corners to fit. Yes, we removed the circlip first.
I fwpJ8hW X2


This is the hub and rotor, I decided to replace both, the hubs were junk and the rotors had seen better days at 10,900 miles.
I tqScSgw X2


Mmmmmm, pritty and new. 😍 Do NOT FORGET to give the hubs a fresh coat of grease or you could end up right back here. :oops:
I FptpqvV X2


New hubs come with studs. Hub part number is 42615-HL6-A00. Rotor part number is 43251-HL6-A01.
I CM2Vq8x X2


The bearings are YUGE - 2-7/8" x 1-7/16" (73 x 38 mm). Dan suggested that we pull the hubs twice a year and grease between the hub and bearing. Methinks that be a good idear, especially iffn you live in a wetter environment than I do (Dan is also a desert rat). Don't be afraid to give your rattle gun an extra braaaaap to get the axle nut good and tight, maybe that's all it will take to keep this from happening again ... maybe.
1685411784294


The axle shaft is cross drilled for the cotter key, making it easier to line up with the castle nut. Be sure to give the splines a fresh coat of grease.
I xGqz4dN X2
 
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CID

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I'm going to try to explain something here but not sure I can get the idea across. Here goes, anyway.

I tie the rear down with axle straps running through the spokes (and they won't fit through on stock wheels). Doing this means I have to 'dodge' the valve stems on both sides. Another problem for me is that my rear straps aren't all that adjustable, I have both the left and right side set the same (depending on what I need for tongue weight), so I need them to be able to be placed on 'the same spoke', so both will pull tight.
I CH4kNnF X2


The problem was that the left and right wheels weren't 'clocked', I couldn't get the valve stems straight across from each other. 🤔 So I frequently had to put the straps on the 'wrong' spoke which caused one chain to be looser than the other - I lived with it. :(

I just replaced my rear wheel bearings (at 10,900 miles), which required the removal of the splined hubs and rotors. When I put it back together, I was able to get the valve stems aligned, almost perfectly straight across. WTF?

Reason - the axle splines are what locates the 4 wheel studs, I had accidently 'clocked' the wheel studs on reassembly. So if you need the left and right wheels clocked for any reason, you can do it by rotating either hub on the axle splines. That isn't hard to do - pull either wheel, pull the cotter key, undo the 30 mm nut, unbolt the caliper, pull the hub/rotor assembly (it slides right off if it isn't corroded (see above post)), rotate to clock, put a fresh coat of grease on the hub and internal splines, reassemble. Don't be afraid to give the rattle gun an extra braaaap to get the nut tight.

Where you put the hub on these splines is what locates the wheel studs -
I xgqz4dn x2 jpg


I know this is esoteric information but it might help someone, it will help me. :cool:

This is irrelevant info on a buggy with turf mode, your wheels are always changing clocking, right to left. The Talon has a 'solid' rear axle and the valve stems will stay in the same orientation until you take a wheel off and forget to clock it when you put it back on - DAMHIK. 😊
 
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AMink

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Info overload! Thanks all for taking the time to post these helpful tips, tricks, and insights. This was an all morning rabbit hole for me. Some of the stuff I knew about but most is new stuff jousting for room in my brain!
 
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CID

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Info overload! Thanks all for taking the time to post these helpful tips, tricks, and insights. This was an all morning rabbit hole for me. Some of the stuff I knew about but most is new stuff jousting for room in my brain!
Thanks. :cool: That's the point of the thread - to get 'everything Talon' in one place. We've tried to keep up as new information becomes available. Welcome to the rabbit hole. :D
 
CID

CID

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Info overload! Thanks all for taking the time to post these helpful tips, tricks, and insights. This was an all morning rabbit hole for me. Some of the stuff I knew about but most is new stuff jousting for room in my brain!
When yer head stops spinnin', more good info here -

 
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Christ, another thread that I'm going to have to read all 175+ posts in ... sigh.
You've been here almost 2 years and didn't know about this thread? Do try to keep up, m'kay? :p

Obtw, when yer done with this thread, here's another 206 posts. :oops:
 
Scoop

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LOL. Yea, well, in my defense, I've only owned a Talon for less than 5 days. :p
 
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Gknight

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Great idea trying to have this important info in one place, it took me awhile to absorb a lot of this finding pieces here and there. 👍

I'll throw in "check the sub transmission oil level" as soon as you get your Talon. Mine was a little low but not as bad as some I've read about. When I first got my Talon I wasn't aware that the oil type in the sub transmission is the same as the recommended engine oil, 10W-30. When I changed my sub trans oil I used a synthetic motor oil since the sub trans does not share the same sump as the engine so no worry about it creating a slipping clutch situation. This was my own personal preference and I'm only adding this as a data point, not a recommendation.

Edit: added picture taken next to right rear shock absorber


View attachment 184020
Purchased a new Talon in May of 2023. Took it back to dealer at 300 miles for grinding/squealing sounds and hard shifting from park to drive or reverse. Factory and/or Dealer forgot to add/check the oil in the sub trans. They covered it under warranty.
 
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One of the few changes made to the Talon since its introduction had been the axle nut sizes.

Thanks to Hondasxs -

The axle nut has grown. Need a 36mm for the 2023 (not s) Live Valve.

Axle nut.
2019-2021 = 30mm
2022 and 2023 (s model) = 32mm
2023 and 24 (not s) = 36mm
 
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Dankathy

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You're sure on the 36mm for the non s 2023? Pretty sure mine measured 34mm🤷‍♂️
 
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