2019 Talon 1000X Suspension issue

[TerryH]

I went thru all of this when I got my '19 X. Couple of points. First, the rear tenders are not collapsed. They are not intended to be a working part of the suspension. Their purpose is just to keep tension on the main when the shock is fully extended. Second, the Fox fill system is garbage.

Bandit UTV tender springs are the best $200 anyone can spend on an X. They will dramatically improve the ride. There are several ways to solve the nitrogen issue. I chose to change the caps to the JC Racing billet caps.

Here are the videos I did for both the springs and the caps.

Check all the fluids along with the shift cable adjustment to insure it's going into low properly. The throttle will improve with time. Couple of different companies make foot rests that do help. I have the Brute Performance one. I like it but AJK Off road has one that is wider and looks like it might work better.

I have the Bandit full spring kit now and it's another step better than just the tenders but the tenders do a great job of softening the ride. I've also removed the sway bar and have no intention of putting it back on. The rear mains are plenty without the sway bar unless you are intending on pitching it sideways at 70 all the time.

 

[McCarthy]

Huh. I've never seen a tender than is essentially a spacer lol.

Though I think I found the one place Honda engineers tested... Very rough deactivated logging road at 70mph sideways the machine is phenominal. As good as a class 3 buggy. I can't get over how good the DCT/engine is when rung out, and the tech that allows you to brake dead straight is amazing, and we can't forget horribly stiff suspension makes it corner dead flat.

It's also great at 1st gear rock crawling

Sucks anywhere from 5-40mph, where, incidentally, I do 95% of my riding

 

[McCarthy]

Seriously considering this: anybody have them?

STAGE 4 REAR SHOCKS for CAN-AM DEFENDER HD10 XT/XTP/DPS 2020-2021

The Stage 4 shocks offer the performance of our latest technology in a package that is more accessible and easier to use. They are ideal for racers and weekend warriors who are looking for high-performance shocks with great adjustability of key parameters. Adjustments: - Low-Speed Compression -...

ca.elkasuspension.com

 

[TerryH]

Huh. I've never seen a tender than is essentially a spacer lol.

Though I think I found the one place Honda engineers tested... Very rough deactivated logging road at 70mph sideways the machine is phenominal. As good as a class 3 buggy. I can't get over how good the DCT/engine is when rung out, and the tech that allows you to brake dead straight is amazing, and we can't forget horribly stiff suspension makes it corner dead flat.

It's also great at 1st gear rock crawling

Sucks anywhere from 5-40mph, where, incidentally, I do 95% of my riding

Actually Polaris has the same exact thing on some of the 2 seat XP1000's. Just have to shake your head on who approved this for any SXS.

 

[Montecresto]

I went thru all of this when I got my '19 X. Couple of points. First, the rear tenders are not collapsed. They are not intended to be a working part of the suspension. Their purpose is just to keep tension on the main when the shock is fully extended. Second, the Fox fill system is garbage.

Bandit UTV tender springs are the best $200 anyone can spend on an X. They will dramatically improve the ride. There are several ways to solve the nitrogen issue. I chose to change the caps to the JC Racing billet caps.

Here are the videos I did for both the springs and the caps.

Check all the fluids along with the shift cable adjustment to insure it's going into low properly. The throttle will improve with time. Couple of different companies make foot rests that do help. I have the Brute Performance one. I like it but AJK Off road has one that is wider and looks like it might work better.

I have the Bandit full spring kit now and it's another step better than just the tenders but the tenders do a great job of softening the ride. I've also removed the sway bar and have no intention of putting it back on. The rear mains are plenty without the sway bar unless you are intending on pitching it sideways at 70 all the time.

Are those springs and caps recommended for the X live valve also Terry?

 

[TerryH]

Are those springs and caps recommended for the X live valve also Terry?

Any of the Fox shocks that have the rubber ball fill system are likely to have nitrogen loss so doing something is definitely a good idea. Replacing the caps is the easiest answer but I see people that have drilled and tapped their original caps for Schrader valves. That's a lot cheaper but obviously has more work involved. Seems lots of people are happy with the springs on the LV's but others have said that the spring change was good. All in perspective and riding styles/conditions I suppose.

 

[McCarthy]

Just got it back from the dealer today, after its third visit in three weeks... The very reason I bought it is reliability, and my RZR was in the shop 3 times in 3 years, the Talon is 3 times in THREE WEEKS...

its really too bad. I love the way it looks, the fit and finish is awesome, the dct is cutting edge for a side by side and works great, the engine is phenomenal, but they just screwed the suspension up so bad.

Shop visit 1: drivers side rear shock blown and leaking, had 0 nitrogen charge as it rolled off showroom floor
shop visit 2: sub transmission was very low on fluid from factory
Shop visit 3: rear tender springs are collapsed, Honda says they’re “normal”. Ya I know, this probably is normal, but I guess it's more my frustration with how terrible the suspension is that i'm hoping a part is broken and can be fixed.

EDIT: I wanted to expand on this a bit, I hate bashing the machine, it just drives me nuts that I spent a lot of friggin money on a machine and the way to get suspension performance i'm used to is about a $3000 set of Elka shocks. Just to be similar to the old rzr I had. Crazy to me a company like Honda that has been building cars for so long can get it so wrong.

Sure the display sucks, but I don't care... Headlights are amazing, cage is well designed and comes with a roof, seats are great, storage is good, design is phenomenal, wheels and tires are very good from factory, I'm in love wit the 1000 twin/DCT combo so much more than the 1000/rubber band tranny of the rzr, that thing felt so boring and the Talon feels so alive. I guess it boils down to they did such a good job in so many ways... BUT...

They have access to suspension geometry machines, testing machines, engineers, R+ D facilities, etc etc etc, that Polaris/Can am/Kawasaki/etc drool over using, they get the rest of the car so, so right, yet they manage to F*** up probably the most important part of a sport side by side. The suspension.

Anyway, I'm going to replenish the fun budget after the cost of the talon, and buy some elka's I guess.

Oh and the bumper and winch went on today, i'll post some pics!

 

[JTW]

So, this is exactly why I tell people to check out the KRX. There are some things I really like about the talon and a lot I don’t. But people are short changing themselves not to compare the machines before spending the money.

 

[McCarthy]

So, this is exactly why I tell people to check out the KRX. There are some things I really like about the talon and a lot I don’t. But people are short changing themselves not to compare the machines before spending the money.

I extensively compared the talon, KRX, another rzr, and an X3. My first choice was an X3, but it would be been 6 months to get the 64” model I wanted. I’ve driven a KRX a hundred miles or so, and it felt sluggish and heavy compared to the rzr I owned at the time, which was the opposite of what I wanted.

 

[Montecresto]

I extensively compared the talon, KRX, another rzr, and an X3. My first choice was an X3, but it would be been 6 months to get the 64” model I wanted. I’ve driven a KRX a hundred miles or so, and it felt sluggish and heavy compared to the rzr I owned at the time, which was the opposite of what I wanted.

You have the two seat non live valve right?

 

[McCarthy]

You have the two seat non live valve right?

Correct. Only model Honda sends to Canada.

 

[JTW]

I extensively compared the talon, KRX, another rzr, and an X3. My first choice was an X3, but it would be been 6 months to get the 64” model I wanted. I’ve driven a KRX a hundred miles or so, and it felt sluggish and heavy compared to the rzr I owned at the time, which was the opposite of what I wanted.

That’s an easy fix.. $250 tune completely wakes it up.

 

[Fyathyrio]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad dealer experience, issue 1 should have been found during dealer prep or purchase inspection, issue 2 same, or when the dealer showed you about your new machine before leaving the shop. The suspension, yeah, it has its issues on chattery stuff, and other times the thing just works.

 

[McCarthy]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad dealer experience, issue 1 should have been found during dealer prep or purchase inspection, issue 2 same, or when the dealer showed you about your new machine before leaving the shop. The suspension, yeah, it has its issues on chattery stuff, and other times the thing just works.

The dealer I bought it from is usually fantastic, part of the reason I bought it over the rzr is the Polaris dealer in town (Small town) sucks and the Honda one is awesome. s*** happens, they’ll fix it, at the end of the day though Honda shipped the machine broken

 

[CTDpower]

Bandit tender springs, no sway bar, and aired down 32s on 14" wheels made a huge difference for me. Mostly slower rocky tight trails and rock crawling.

 

[906UP]

...... at the end of the day though Honda shipped the machine broken

How so? Just curious, maybe I missed something, a cup low on the subtrans isn't "broken", tender springs getting sacked from the machine sitting at the dealer for a year & a half isn't the factory's fault either. Its hard to build a machine that EVERYONE will be happy with, thats why there is the aftermarket so we can make it our own.

 

[McCarthy]

How so? Just curious, maybe I missed something, a cup low on the subtrans isn't "broken", tender springs getting sacked from the machine sitting at the dealer for a year & a half isn't the factory's fault either. Its hard to build a machine that EVERYONE will be happy with, thats why there is the aftermarket so we can make it our own.

I guessed you missed the blown shock with 0 miles on the Odo.

 

[906UP]

I guessed you missed the blown shock with 0 miles on the Odo.

Blown or it leaked the nitrogen? Either way it's a common issue with the Fox shocks, regardless of the brand of SxS/ATV/motorcycle. I was just looking at the Schrader vavle cap conversion for mine, it's an easy mod that will correct a design flaw on Fox's part. I'm pretty sure 1 or maybe both my rears are low or empty. I'll correct that this winter.

http://www.jcracingonline.com/Shock-Reservoir-RACE-HD-Endcap-for-FOX-Shock-20-RECSB.htm

 

[McCarthy]

Both, no nitrogen and leaking oil onto the shock piston.

 

[McCarthy]

I'm going to play around with the rear preload while waiting for the bandit springs. I'll try backing it off some to see if that softens the ride a bit.