2019 Talon 1000X Suspension issue

snuffnwhisky

snuffnwhisky

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From the videos I've saw, a Talon R with beadlocks and 32" Terrabite tires is a little slower 0-60 than the KRX is stock. Also the KRX is Drive by Wire. The stock throttle mapping limits the throttle to a max 85% open and really slows throttle response when taking off. A tune is about $250 to remap the throttle and makes a pretty huge difference. They were knocking 1 second off the 0-60 times and its a lot more responsive feeling. Still a belt though. Hard to beat the DCT for fun factor.
 
CID

CID

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Yep, different strokes for different folks. The Talon is my first SxS and I held off buying it because I got an invite to the Sand Hollow Rally last November by another new Talon owner. He brought his stock Talon and I rode with him for 3 days. He did things in that Talon that I'll never consider. When I got home, I ordered one and took delivery in February. It's taken me everywhere I want to go here in the Rockies - I love the direct connection between the throttle and the tires, it's instant. A belt drive is like turbo lag and I hate that. I also hate that I can't control the RPM when just cruising, the Talon has neither of those issues.

I don't know what the shortcomings are yet but they'll be so far above what I'll ask that I may never find them.

And then some @#$%@#$ stole it from the dealer (in for a leaking diff seal), running it into a locked 6' chain link gate enough times to bend the gate over and launch my Talon (surveillance video). It was recovered that night but the dealer is stepping up - I'm waiting for a new 2021 unit now but his allotment isn't scheduled until October - he's trying to source another one sooner but ... :( (story in the Pub, there was cussing :mad: )
 
Hometeam

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I have driven both, it depends on your preferred trail and use, as to how you are personally going to rate them. For me if I can't run 15mph on a trail without ripping the suspension out from under it, then why do I need a turbo or a machine geared for high speed running? Again it comes down to use, not all machines are for the same use people try to compare them and they are not designed for the same use. If you compare a monkey to a fish and judge the monkey on his ability to swim vs the fish he will lose every time. Same for the fish climbing a tree.

The parts on the KRX are in some cases 200% larger, it has steel fender wells, steel skids, steel is dense and heavy. Add all those beefed up parts to a Talon and it'll be 300lbs heavier. The A-arms I have on my machine weight 186lbs...without ball joints or the larger tiers, needed due to steering angle issues using factory style tierod ends. The 8 factory I think weighed around 30lb which is the same as one of my rear lower arms. Not a desert runner, slow and steady rock crawling. They have ½ UHMW skids on the bottom of the arms. The cheap tires on the Talon are LIGHT, the beadlocks and larger/thicker tires on the KRX are heavy. You will add 300-400lbs REALLY quick adding parts to the talon. I spent a lot of time looking at what I was going to have to do to a TalonR/Talon X4/KRX/MY Pioneer to get it to where I wanted, the weight, AND the cost to do so. Where "I" wanted was going to be $28k/$34k/$23k/@$2k for the 4 machines. The weight was going to be very similar for all except the X4 it was going to be slightly heavier. The Pioneer ended up being heavier because the design of the arms changed between when i pulled the trigger and when they got made, and cost slightly more because we were figuring out somethings as we went. .

I went into the re-build of my Pioneer 1000 trying to shed weight up high and move it down low because we play in the hills, rocks, and off camber trails.

There are several drag races showing they are dang near even acceleration wise and hill climbing. The DCT gives the Talon a short lead off the line but then the KRX holds the gap. The KRX is not the fat cow everyone on the web says it is because they can read a spec sheet. Maybe on a short course the Talon would spank the KRX because of that but most people don't seem to be buying the KRX for racing.
Numbers don't always tell the truth, numbers say the Talon shouldn't out accelerate the NA RZR but it does, numbers don't show torque numbers the Talon has torque vs HP and that gets it moving, it doesn't have the gearing to play in the rocks or thick mud, but its great on the trails and in the desert.

It depends on your definition of fun, some guys love to play in the mud like a pig, some like to play in the rocks, some like to run 100mph across the desert like their hair is on fire. In each one of those categories you have subsets of slow and fast.

I am not trying to sell you on either machine, I like people to have accurate information so THEY can make their own decision. There are several really great members on here that I never ride with simply because we like to play on different playgrounds. We ride the same machine but they are built by us for different uses.

I totally agree with you on them being built for different things and that makes it hard to compare....but if look back through all these discussions I have never started out trying to compare the 2....others Keep being on a Honda forum constantly comparing the KRX to it. So since that is the comparison I'm saying that the KRX cannot play in the Honda's playground as much as you're saying the Honda can't play in the KRX's playground. If that's how we are saying it!)

Yes if you put the same parts on the Honda it will weight more too....but I'm not sure I would want some of those extra heavy parts on my Talon even if it was option .....I don't want a heavy steel skid plate....just like you have said though different builds for different people! That brings me too why I have a Talon....mainly the drivetrain.

@ohanacreek this is why I usually try not get in discussions like this with you!!! You are to smart and logical for me!! You have well written arguments!! 🤓 😂
 
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JTW

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Y’all quit with that logical KRX talk...
2B7B3B3C 97C9 4D0D A75F 0CF943E22875
 
Hometeam

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From the videos I've saw, a Talon R with beadlocks and 32" Terrabite tires is a little slower 0-60 than the KRX is stock. Also the KRX is Drive by Wire. The stock throttle mapping limits the throttle to a max 85% open and really slows throttle response when taking off. A tune is about $250 to remap the throttle and makes a pretty huge difference. They were knocking 1 second off the 0-60 times and its a lot more responsive feeling. Still a belt though. Hard to beat the DCT for fun factor.

32" tires and after market beadlocks I bet our quit a bit heavier than the 31" carnivores. But I get what you're saying. And if you take that Talon with 32-in tires and tune it for 32 (like the small KRX tuning) it might be a different story than also. Lol
 
ohanacreek

ohanacreek

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I totally agree with you on them being built for different things and that makes it hard to compare....but if look back through all these discussions I have never started out trying to compare the 2....others Keep being on a Honda forum constantly comparing the KRX to it. So since that is the comparison I'm saying that the KRX cannot play in the Honda's playground as much as you're saying the Honda can't play in the KRX's playground. If that's how we are saying it!)

Yes if you put the same parts on the Honda it will weight more too....but I'm not sure I would want some of those extra heavy parts on my Talon even if it was option .....I don't want a heavy steel skid plate....just like you have said though different builds for different people! That brings me too why I have a Talon....mainly the drivetrain.

@ohanacreek this is why I usually try not get in discussions like this with you!!! You are to smart and logical for me!! You have well written arguments!! 🤓 😂

Since the world has thrown logic out the window lately, logic is all I have left to keep my sanity.
I can't afford to swap machines on a annual basis, I know most people can't either. I can with help however build what I need though.
If people have all the info they can make their own decision not based on some Youtube guys limited seat time in a machine.
There is a lot of valuable experience learned the hard way from the members here. Luckily not all of it by me!
I do want people to be able to read this and make an informed decision.
Discussion is good it helps air out the different view points, so people who aren't posting can see them all.
 
J

JTW

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I totally agree with you on them being built for different things and that makes it hard to compare....but if look back through all these discussions I have never started out trying to compare the 2....others Keep being on a Honda forum constantly comparing the KRX to it. So since that is the comparison I'm saying that the KRX cannot play in the Honda's playground as much as you're saying the Honda can't play in the KRX's playground. If that's how we are saying it!)

Yes if you put the same parts on the Honda it will weight more too....but I'm not sure I would want some of those extra heavy parts on my Talon even if it was option .....I don't want a heavy steel skid plate....just like you have said though different builds for different people! That brings me too why I have a Talon....mainly the drivetrain.

@ohanacreek this is why I usually try not get in discussions like this with you!!! You are to smart and logical for me!! You have well written arguments!! 🤓 😂
The reason it’s compared and brought up is because there are other options better suited for what many here ride or would like to ride. We have members spending 10k plus on PK5’s to make a machine that a stock sport machine has been specifically built to do. I myself was in that group. What you fail to realize is there are people coming here to get unbiased info. The guys coming from rzr’s or other sport machines may be looking for something different. The fan boy mentality towards Honda is astounding. So rather than seeing people spend their money on something they’re going to have to spend another 5-6k to get it where they want. Here’s an option that fills those needs in a stock form. Is it a better machine.... time will tell. But it’s certainly built like it has that in mind and it’s better suited for a large majority of riders here on the forum.
 
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Hometeam

Hometeam

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The reason it’s compared and brought up is because there are other options better suited for what many here ride or would like to ride. We have members spending 10k plus on PK5’s to make a machine that a stock sport machine has been specifically built to do. I myself was in that group. What you fail to realize is there are people coming here to get unbiased info. The guys coming from rzr’s or other sport machines may be looking for something different. The fan boy mentality towards Honda is astounding. So rather than seeing people spend their money on something they’re going to have to spend another 5-6k to get it where they want. Here’s an option that fills those needs in a stock form. Is it a better machine.... time will tell. But it’s certainly built like it has that in mind and it’s better suited for a large majority of riders here on the forum.

Actually I think you are missing the point....most people coming from other brands do want something different. They don't want an unfixable belt or all the other problems that the other brands have. And Honda has that! It is a drivers machine and with a little bit more money (still less than some of the other brands) on the suspension and it will be everything they want it to be. They need fun and reliable. Most will never feel the difference after that, but they will feel the shifting and rpms. So I am letting them know that the Honda is a good machine. I am not a fan boy at all. I have YXZ and had 4-5 polaris's (literally have fixed something on them everytime out). That is why I own a Honda now. And it has handled everything I have thrown at it. I am one of the guys that had 2 Pioneer 1000 that I did drive like a sport SXS and it held together with the real Sport SXS.

And Shock work is only $1200-$1500. So lets keep it real so we don't miss lead!!
 
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lee

lee

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It depends on your definition of fun, some guys love to play in the mud like a pig, some like to play in the rocks, some like to run 100mph across the desert like their hair is on fire. In each one of those categories you have subsets of slow and fast.

Maybe we like to play in Talons.
 
Lil_Steve

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32" tires and after market beadlocks I bet our quit a bit heavier than the 31" carnivores. But I get what you're saying. And if you take that Talon with 32-in tires and tune it for 32 (like the small KRX tuning) it might be a different story than also. Lol

Just as a point of reference, my 32" Terrabite's on STI HD9 bead locks weigh 57lbs a piece.
 
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Smitty335

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I have driven both, it depends on your preferred trail and use, as to how you are personally going to rate them. For me if I can't run 15mph on a trail without ripping the suspension out from under it, then why do I need a turbo or a machine geared for high speed running? Again it comes down to use, not all machines are for the same use people try to compare them and they are not designed for the same use. If you compare a monkey to a fish and judge the monkey on his ability to swim vs the fish he will lose every time. Same for the fish climbing a tree.

The parts on the KRX are in some cases 200% larger, it has steel fender wells, steel skids, steel is dense and heavy. Add all those beefed up parts to a Talon and it'll be 300lbs heavier. The A-arms I have on my machine weight 186lbs...without ball joints or the larger tiers, needed due to steering angle issues using factory style tierod ends. The 8 factory I think weighed around 30lb which is the same as one of my rear lower arms. Not a desert runner, slow and steady rock crawling. They have ½ UHMW skids on the bottom of the arms. The cheap tires on the Talon are LIGHT, the beadlocks and larger/thicker tires on the KRX are heavy. You will add 300-400lbs REALLY quick adding parts to the talon. I spent a lot of time looking at what I was going to have to do to a TalonR/Talon X4/KRX/MY Pioneer to get it to where I wanted, the weight, AND the cost to do so. Where "I" wanted was going to be $28k/$34k/$23k/@$2k for the 4 machines. The weight was going to be very similar for all except the X4 it was going to be slightly heavier. The Pioneer ended up being heavier because the design of the arms changed between when i pulled the trigger and when they got made, and cost slightly more because we were figuring out somethings as we went. .

I went into the re-build of my Pioneer 1000 trying to shed weight up high and move it down low because we play in the hills, rocks, and off camber trails.

There are several drag races showing they are dang near even acceleration wise and hill climbing. The DCT gives the Talon a short lead off the line but then the KRX holds the gap. The KRX is not the fat cow everyone on the web says it is because they can read a spec sheet. Maybe on a short course the Talon would spank the KRX because of that but most people don't seem to be buying the KRX for racing.
Numbers don't always tell the truth, numbers say the Talon shouldn't out accelerate the NA RZR but it does, numbers don't show torque numbers the Talon has torque vs HP and that gets it moving, it doesn't have the gearing to play in the rocks or thick mud, but its great on the trails and in the desert.

It depends on your definition of fun, some guys love to play in the mud like a pig, some like to play in the rocks, some like to run 100mph across the desert like their hair is on fire. In each one of those categories you have subsets of slow and fast.

I am not trying to sell you on either machine, I like people to have accurate information so THEY can make their own decision. There are several really great members on here that I never ride with simply because we like to play on different playgrounds. We ride the same machine but they are built by us for different uses.
AWAA GRASHOPPER, WISE FOR ONE SO YOUNG!
 
Smitty335

Smitty335

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Since the world has thrown logic out the window lately, logic is all I have left to keep my sanity.
I can't afford to swap machines on a annual basis, I know most people can't either. I can with help however build what I need though.
If people have all the info they can make their own decision not based on some Youtube guys limited seat time in a machine.
There is a lot of valuable experience learned the hard way from the members here. Luckily not all of it by me!
I do want people to be able to read this and make an informed decision.
Discussion is good it helps air out the different view points, so people who aren't posting can see them all.
What's the point oink? HA! My P1-5 is the quietest machine out there and will blow the doors off any RAZOR. Truth lies in the mind of the b holder! HA!
 
J

JTW

Guest
Actually I think you are missing the point....most people coming from other brands do want something different. They don't want an unfixable belt or all the other problems that the other brands have. And Honda has that! It is a drivers machine and with a little bit more money (still less than some of the other brands) on the suspension and it will be everything they want it to be. They need fun and reliable. Most will never feel the difference after that, but they will feel the shifting and rpms. So I am letting them know that the Honda is a good machine. I am not a fan boy at all. I have YXZ and had 4-5 polaris's (literally have fixed something on them everytime out). That is why I own a Honda now. And it has handled everything I have thrown at it. I am one of the guys that had 2 Pioneer 1000 that I did drive like a sport SXS and it held together with the real Sport SXS.

And Shock work is only $1200-$1500. So lets keep it real so we don't miss lead!!

It’s not just shock work... it’s wheels and tires, skids, radius rods, steering racks, ROPS, suspension and several other factors that are being compared. The talon is fun... and I do miss my shifters in the krx. But outside of that... that’s it.
 
Hometeam

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It’s not just shock work... it’s wheels and tires, skids, radius rods, steering racks, ROPS, suspension and several other factors that are being compared. The talon is fun... and I do miss my shifters in the krx. But outside of that... that’s it.

Wow....just spent an hour on the KRX forums that I will never get back. Not real confidence inspiring reading just the first page. Couldn't open a horsepower upgrade thread without members asking if the wet clutch will hold up to the power with answers like "I hope so...it has so far but we aren't pushing yet", to Kawasaki needs to address the primary clutches on these as they wear grooves in them real easy less than 400 miles and then it shifts funny... all agree that was problem, some asked if they have the newer model with the updated a-arms and other stuff.....I guess I am just dumb....but that sure doesn't sound like a much better more reliable machine. Oh I almost forgot that some guys keep having to take off his steel skid plate and pound out the dents so it doesn't mess up other stuff....doesn't that sound like fun. Remember you said the steel skid plate was upgrade.....NOT! I guess I just missed out this amazing machine. To bad for me!!!😭
 
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JTW

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Wow....just spent an hour on the KRX forums that I will never get back. Not real confidence inspiring reading just the first page. Couldn't open a horsepower upgrade thread without members asking if the wet clutch will hold up to the power with answers like "I hope so...it has so far but we aren't pushing yet", to Kawasaki needs to address the primary clutches on these as they wear grooves in them real easy less than 400 miles and then it shifts funny... all agree that was problem, some asked if they have the newer model with the updated a-arms and other stuff.....I guess I am just dumb....but that sure doesn't sound like a much better more reliable machine. Oh I almost forgot that some guys keep having to take off his steel skid plate and pound out the dents so it doesn't mess up other stuff....doesn't that sound like fun. Remember you said the steel skid plate was upgrade.....NOT! I guess I just missed out this amazing machine. To bad for me!!!😭
And kawi is fixing everyone of those things whether you’ve had trouble or not. You act like the Talon doesn’t have issues of its own.. The talon has been out years and built off a machine that’s been out even longer. Honda still hasn’t addressed many of the issues it has and the KRX 6-7 months and kawi is on top of it. MANY of us here have had issues with Honda and had to fix them ourselves because they wouldn’t admit to the problems until months if not years later and that’s even if they do. They’re slow to do ANYTHING!! There are going to be issues with any machine... that’s a given. It’s how the company handles those issues that counts. I would rather have a company admit to issues and fix them than try to sweep it under the rug and fix only what comes in.

I don’t care what anyone here buys... I have no skin in the game. I just want people to be aware of the options that might better suit them. I’ve had first hand experience with both. How about you?
 
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Hometeam

Hometeam

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And kawi is fixing everyone of those things whether you’ve had trouble or not. You act like the Talon doesn’t have issues of its own.. The talon has been out years and built off a machine that’s been out even longer. Honda still hasn’t addressed many of the issues it has and the KRX 6-7 months and kawi is on top of it. MANY of us here have had issues with Honda and had to fix them ourselves because they wouldn’t admit to the problems until months if not years later and that’s even if they do. They’re slow to do ANYTHING!! There are going to be issues with any machine... that’s a given. It’s how the company handles those issues that counts. I would rather have a company admit to issues and fix them than try to sweep it under the rug and fix only what comes in.

And the elevation issues it is having is worse than the Hondas. The problem is is you have come on here acting like the KRX is perfect and I'm just pointing out that it is very far from being perfect. And still has a piece of crap belt that puts grooves in the primary clutch!! Oh wait it's a Wet design though oooooooooooooooooo it's mucho better now! Lol!
 
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JTW

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And the elevation issues it is having is worse than the Hondas. The problem is is you have come on here acting like the KRX is perfect and I'm just pointing out that it is very far from being perfect. And still has a piece of crap belt that puts grooves in the primary clutch!! Oh wait it's a Wet design though oooooooooooooooooo it's mucho better now! Lol!
You’re so full of s***... you have absolutely no clue what you’re taking about.
 
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