Calendar **2019** Taylor Lake Colorado Group Ride [Sep 6, 2019] (CO)

[Tbee]

I was all thru that area and up at elevation in a pioneer 500 and a 700 Grizzly. We never had a power issue. A friend of mine just bought a pioneer 1000-3 EPS at my recommendation. I hope i did not make a mistake on that. We travel a lot to elevation destinations and was wanting to bring him along as he is now getting into the sport.
Do you guys have some kind of modifications that are hindering performance at altitude?
Not trying to be a butt really concerned.

 

[Smitty335]

One thing i need to say on this thread!!!!
The power above 10,000' of a stock P1k with 28" tires SUCKED!!!!!
I could not hardly start off in High 1st gear on even the slightest incline.

Sounds like an LE deal, HA! Couldn't resist! I only heated up once creeping up a mountain behind a P5, no air flow through the radiator other than the fan, I do agree the shroud needs improvement.

 

[Smitty335]

I was all thru that area and up at elevation in a pioneer 500 and a 700 Grizzly. We never had a power issue. A friend of mine just bought a pioneer 1000-3 EPS at my recommendation. I hope i did not make a mistake on that. We travel a lot to elevation destinations and was wanting to bring him along as he is now getting into the sport.
Do you guys have some kind of modifications that are hindering performance at altitude?
Not trying to be a butt really concerned.

My 16 P1-5 lost some power at 10,000, but not much?

 

[wrwtexan]

One thing i need to say on this thread!!!!
The power above 10,000' of a stock P1k with 28" tires SUCKED!!!!!
I could not hardly start off in High 1st gear on even the slightest incline.

Not sure what might be the problem. I towed a dead CanAm SxS over Cinnamon and into Silverton with now power issue and only had to stop once for a slight overheat before crest. Stock '16 P1K-5 with 6 of us in it. No other overheats any other time either.

 

[Plumber32]

I was all thru that area and up at elevation in a pioneer 500 and a 700 Grizzly. We never had a power issue. A friend of mine just bought a pioneer 1000-3 EPS at my recommendation. I hope i did not make a mistake on that. We travel a lot to elevation destinations and was wanting to bring him along as he is now getting into the sport.
Do you guys have some kind of modifications that are hindering performance at altitude?
Not trying to be a butt really concerned.

Big tires hurt in the rocks at over 10,000

 

[Tramguage1]

Not sure what might be the problem. I towed a dead CanAm SxS over Cinnamon and into Silverton with now power issue and only had to stop once for a slight overheat before crest. Stock '16 P1K-5 with 6 of us in it. No other overheats any other time either.

Not saying as noticable power loss at speed, but I normally run in High 75% of the time at home. I ran low range 90% of the time in Colorado. I'll check my air filter but think the altitude was the problem.

 

[JTW]

The altitude most certainly hurts the power.. big tires and dirty filters just make it worse. Overheating is amplified because you’re having to run higher rpms and air bubbles expand at altitude. Not to mention boiling points are affected in a system that’s already anemic for the platform.

 

[wrwtexan]

Altitude definitely effects them but not as much as it does the 700's. '16 we went up the Como side of California in it and almost didn't make it up to top of the pass. In '17 I had installed a inside the filter blower that gave it a good boost. At home I couldn't tell it made any difference at all.
'18 and '19 in the P1K-5, I can't really tell much difference between up there and the soup it breathes here in Texas and I was running E10 gas.

 

[Landman]

Hey @Landman and @Tramguage1 .... I have been riding in Colorado for four days now..... overheated on every long ascent.....
I hope Honda comes up with a solution..... it gets old in a hurry.... no wonder Landman was upset....
I am gonna also have my radiator cap checked... I was smelling coolant just with barely three bars...
Great time.... thanks for everything....
First time I have had phone signal since then....

You need the fan mod override with a switch. You can get it from the Hondasxs store. Also that smell is coming from your degas bottle from the overflow tube.

Sadly, every time mine started to overheat, the fan was running... the fan wouldn't shut off once it hit 3 bars. At one point, as soon as it hit 4 bars and the light came on, luckily I was able to stop immediately, leave it running as it wasn't boiling yet, jump out and start spraying water on the radiator and it went back to 2 bars within a minute. And this was after @Tramguage1 had burped it twice. The third time Tram checked it, it was still full and couldn't take any more fluid. On the Sunday ride, which was just a scenic ride, it still hit 3 bars frequently and before leaving out that day, I removed some junk I was carrying and drained water out of the coolers to help reduce the load. I think it boils down (no pun intended) to the design being too inefficient in certain situations. From the radiator size to the gap in the shroud, multiple small things cause it to not be able to overcome once it starts heating up. Also, I do have the Slasher front bumper, but it's the newer design which allows more airflow after drilling out the rivets and removing the silver plate. It's very possible just that slight reduction in air flow could be causing it not to recover due to the other design inefficiencies. @JTW mentioned the idea of adding a pusher fan on the front of the radiator - that might be something to try as there seems to be enough space for one.

We didn't leave out until really late Monday... I just didn't feel good and getting packed up was slow. We left out a little before 11 am and hit the driveway at about 5:30 am tuesday morning, driving straight through. It wasn't fun, but we didn't want to stop anywhere. Slept most of the day and have been catching up on work since.

Was really great to meet up with old friends as well as meet some new people and get to put a face with a screen name. Thanks for all your help Tram, as well as putting this ride together - it was somewhere I've been wanting to ride for a long long time. I was a teenager the last time I went to Tincup pass and my wife had never been, so it was an awesome experience!

 

[100Acre]

I was all thru that area and up at elevation in a pioneer 500 and a 700 Grizzly. We never had a power issue. A friend of mine just bought a pioneer 1000-3 EPS at my recommendation. I hope i did not make a mistake on that. We travel a lot to elevation destinations and was wanting to bring him along as he is now getting into the sport.
Do you guys have some kind of modifications that are hindering performance at altitude?
Not trying to be a butt really concerned.

I found running the 1000 in high 4X4 in low RPMS the best. I usually love going fast(ask anyone) but on the long steep uphill climbs, I was typically averaging about 10-17 mph. Slowing down on the climbs kept me from overheating. After I learned the hard way...

 

[Remington]

Sadly, every time mine started to overheat, the fan was running... the fan wouldn't shut off once it hit 3 bars. At one point, as soon as it hit 4 bars and the light came on, luckily I was able to stop immediately, leave it running as it wasn't boiling yet, jump out and start spraying water on the radiator and it went back to 2 bars within a minute. And this was after @Tramguage1 had burped it twice. The third time Tram checked it, it was still full and couldn't take any more fluid. On the Sunday ride, which was just a scenic ride, it still hit 3 bars frequently and before leaving out that day, I removed some junk I was carrying and drained water out of the coolers to help reduce the load. I think it boils down (no pun intended) to the design being too inefficient in certain situations. From the radiator size to the gap in the shroud, multiple small things cause it to not be able to overcome once it starts heating up. Also, I do have the Slasher front bumper, but it's the newer design which allows more airflow after drilling out the rivets and removing the silver plate. It's very possible just that slight reduction in air flow could be causing it not to recover due to the other design inefficiencies. @JTW mentioned the idea of adding a pusher fan on the front of the radiator - that might be something to try as there seems to be enough space for one.

We didn't leave out until really late Monday... I just didn't feel good and getting packed up was slow. We left out a little before 11 am and hit the driveway at about 5:30 am tuesday morning, driving straight through. It wasn't fun, but we didn't want to stop anywhere. Slept most of the day and have been catching up on work since.

Was really great to meet up with old friends as well as meet some new people and get to put a face with a screen name. Thanks for all your help Tram, as well as putting this ride together - it was somewhere I've been wanting to ride for a long long time. I was a teenager the last time I went to Tincup pass and my wife had never been, so it was an awesome experience!

Sorry to hear that u felt crappy, sounds like what @100Acre had. It was great to finally meet you.
As for your over heating, I think design has something to do with it yes. The negative pressure doesn’t help. @Its_kipf has the same bumper and runs 3 bars a lot on our trails in Michigan.(@ sea Level) He installed the fan override harness and a switch before going to Colorado. Like myself he turned it to ON all the time when we started up hill so when the temp was still at 2 bars it didn’t need to catch up and stayed the same . The factory thermal temp cut in and cut out for the fan that u we’re experiencing, at high altitude is not the same as standard altitude and doesn’t kick on with pressure expansion combined only temp, so it basically is too late and that with your bumper is too late causing your overheat. It comes down to the design for the high altitude, but the quick fix is the fan override harness 19$ and switch and knowing when to turn it on unless u want to rebuild the cooling of your machine.

We had issues with testing stage 1&2 Mustangs in the high altitude and we changed the thermal cut in out for the fan with a different sensor and it worked fine.

 

[Landman]

Sorry to hear that u felt crappy, sounds like what @100Acre had. It was great to finally meet you.
As for your over heating, I think design has something to do with it yes. The negative pressure doesn’t help. @Keph has the same bumper and runs 3 bars a lot on our trails in Michigan.(@ sea Level) He installed the fan override harness and a switch before going to Colorado. Like myself he turned it to ON all the time when we started up hill so when the temp was still at 2 bars it didn’t need to catch up and stayed the same . The factory thermal temp cut in and cut out for the fan that u we’re experiencing, at high altitude is not the same as standard altitude and doesn’t kick on with pressure expansion combined only temp, so it basically is too late and that with your bumper is too late causing your overheat. It comes down to the design for the high altitude, but the quick fix is the fan override harness 19$ and switch and knowing when to turn it on unless u want to rebuild the cooling of your machine.

We had issues with testing stage 1&2 Mustangs in the high altitude and we changed the thermal cut in out for the fan with a different sensor and it worked fine.

Hmm, that’s very interesting... I’d really love to test that out - guess another trip to CO is required!!
With how easy it would get to 3+ bars, it doesn’t seem like turning it on at two would change anything, but maybe that just slight little change could’ve been enough to stop the thermal runaway. It’s probably the easiest/cheapest of things to try. I’ve never hit 3 bars here in AR so I’m not sure we have enough elevation change to test it out. Although, now that I think about it, I’ve not been to Mulberry since I’ve had the Slasher on... guess it’s time for another switch.

 

[Remington]

Hmm, that’s very interesting... I’d really love to test that out - guess another trip to CO is required!!
With how easy it would get to 3+ bars, it doesn’t seem like turning it on at two would change anything, but maybe that just slight little change could’ve been enough to stop the thermal runaway. It’s probably the easiest/cheapest of things to try. I’ve never hit 3 bars here in AR so I’m not sure we have enough elevation change to test it out. Although, now that I think about it, I’ve not been to Mulberry since I’ve had the Slasher on... guess it’s time for another switch.

Yes, you may not ever need to use it that much where u ride most of the time, I almost never. But it will come in handy when and if u ever do happen to overheat if you have a plugged radiator or something. You’ll still have to clean the radiator lol. Think of the fan at say 2 bars, not waiting till 3. Might take longer to cool it or not overcome the temp/pressure, when your boiling water on a stove. If all is good no wind you boil quick, if you have a fan blowing on the pot or trying to boil outside on a cold winter day, it takes longer for it to boil right? Similar proses.

 

[Smitty335]

I found running the 1000 in high 4X4 in low RPMS the best. I usually love going fast(ask anyone) but on the long steep uphill climbs, I was typically averaging about 10-17 mph. Slowing down on the climbs kept me from overheating. After I learned the hard way...

I was behind Bill and Gayla going up flag mountain creeping along in there P5 and I had very little air across my radiator besides the fan, I stopped immediately when I I hit 4 bars, no light, for a minute, back down to 2 bars. Need to look at the P5 fan and shroud system, think Honda has that figured out on the P5's.

 

[Alan aka Davinci]

Gawd, you guys and your big boy rides, no power at high altitude. Get a P5, we don't have any power to start with but our low gears make up for it, and knock on wood but I have never had an over heating problem, maybe because I can't get close enough to someone in front of me to restrict my air flow.

 

[Montecresto]

Hey @Landman and @Tramguage1 .... I have been riding in Colorado for four days now..... overheated on every long ascent.....
I hope Honda comes up with a solution..... it gets old in a hurry.... no wonder Landman was upset....
I am gonna also have my radiator cap checked... I was smelling coolant just with barely three bars...
Great time.... thanks for everything....
First time I have had phone signal since then....

Mine got hot the last days ride too. Does that when you have no blades on your fan....

 

[Montecresto]

One thing i need to say on this thread!!!!
The power above 10,000' of a stock P1k with 28" tires SUCKED!!!!!
I could not hardly start off in High 1st gear on even the slightest incline.

Yep, seems like the computers would compensate for that.....

 

[Montecresto]

I have

I have 30’s and didn’t have that problem. Seemed the same to me IMO

What elevation are you normally riding?

 

[Montecresto]

Big tires hurt in the rocks at over 10,000

You drug @Kilo427 out of the mountains with your big tires over rough ass rocks, so fast that @Tramguage1 could barely keep in front of you.....

Btw, loved your muffler!!

 

[Plumber32]

You drug @Kilo427 out of the mountains with your big tires over rough ass rocks, so fast that @Tramguage1 could barely keep in front of you.....

Btw, loved your muffler!!

Yeah we were ready to be back to camp!