P500 3rd Oil Change Today With Over torque Bolts...

[Rustneversleeps]

Is it true the torque specs are wrong in the manual ..
I know this has or must have come up and read about before,but it was to late for me until a knew i over torque the 3 bolts for the oil filter cover on the 2nd oil change, so i left it alone till it was time to do the 3rd oil change...
Now fast forward today this is what it looks like when you over torque a bolt....Can you tell the difference.



So again was in a pickle and needed some bolts so i bought these thinking Honda would be out of stock .90 cents.Hex bolts probably just as good...



So here's the good parts Decided to give Honda a call a low a behold they had 7 in stock my lucky day so i figure may as well put the right OEM bolts as the 500 is still under warranty and didn't want them to see the aftermarket hex bolts...
Long story short i have a buddy ya that right buddy of mine works in the Honda powersport parts Dept and showed him the twisted bolts he said" Wow never seen that before" I'm like that under warranty right He said No but he was kind of enough to give me them for free....10 bucks is 10 bucks in my pockets,,,He said Here, now get TF out of here and have a great weekend...lol.
Part #....



So bottom line if u accidentally over torque your 3 bolts check them before you install them or else you might end up snapping the head in the block and then you'll be in a pickle...
That's my Shop Talk Later...

 

[Admin]

 

[Hondasxs]

Is it true the torque specs are wrong in the manual ..

Either that or no one knows how to correctly use a torque wrench.
IDK. I don't use torque wrenches for this kind of stuff.

My suggestion.
PUT THE TORQUE WRENCH DOWN...
EVERYONE... STOP USING TORQUE WRENCHES ON THE OIL COVERS... OMG...

hahaha.. .lol. but really, it seems to be a common problem.

RECOMMENDATION
Please use a 1/4" shot ratchet and learn to feel the bolt tight, overtight, and stretching.

Not sure if people are over-torquing them or they are just waiting for that "pop". Unforchently, most of the time it is the bolt poping broke instead of the wrench poping as torqued.

Glad you got yours out without too much trouble.

 

[HondaTech]

I never torque any 6mm bolts, too much of a gamble. Just snug them up, as long as you havent pinched the O-ring it wont leak.

 

[JimmyA]

I never torque any 6mm bolts, too much of a gamble. Just snug them up, as long as you havent pinched the O-ring it wont leak.

I 2nd that response!

 

[Terry_Redman]

OK, I am the idiot that torqued to spec on first oil change. On second oil change, one bolt was "stretched and necked" and another broke off when removing the cover. Now I am in a pickle. Has anyone dealt with using a bolt extractor to remove one of these small bolts? Of course, it is the bottom one.

 

[Mudwing]

OK, I am the idiot that torqued to spec on first oil change. On second oil change, one bolt was "stretched and necked" and another broke off when removing the cover. Now I am in a pickle. Has anyone dealt with using a bolt extractor to remove one of these small bolts? Of course, it is the bottom one.

First I would check if the bolt is loose. It’s a machine (straight) thread. If it is you can try to manipulate it out with a pick or something. If that doesn’t work you may have to drill and tap but that a pain. I have seen a way to do it by dissolving the steel bolt with chemicals but I never tried it. Check YouTube. Here’s one video.

 

[trigger]

 

[Richd]

Is the broken bolt flush, proud or recessed?

Years ago on a nissan maxima exhaust I had to remove 3 broken off manifold bolts from the aluminum head. If it's recessed, you can make a special shouldered drill guide that centers off of the remaining hole with an undersized hole in it for the next size down. Buy a set of left-hand drill bits from Harbor Freight. Put your drill motor in reverse and drill into the bolt from within the guide. As the drill digs into the bolt it will usually unscrew it as it is drilling. Normally works like a charm.

Problem for you is getting access for drilling. Good Luck!

 

[JohnnyEmnerson]

I broke one off and was able to use and auto center punch to work it out, till was able to place small vice grips on..

 

[JCart]

I broke one off and was able to use and auto center punch to work it out, till was able to place small vice grips on..

Whoooa good work!

Stretched some (bolts) early on when I first had machine. 1/4” drive is the call and I hold the filter cover cap on compressing the filter spring, then snug bolts down.

Think the problem with torque wrenches if you don’t have a quality one chances are it’s gonna get over torqued. I now use a Snap On digital T wrench and compared against the click type.... well there’s is no comparison and the difference can be significant.
j

 

[Rustneversleeps]

Whoooa good work!

Stretched some (bolts) early on when I first had machine. 1/4” drive is the call and I hold the filter cover cap on compressing the filter spring, then snug bolts down.

Think the problem with torque wrenches if you don’t have a quality one chances are it’s gonna get over torqued. I now use a Snap On digital T wrench and compared against the click type.... well there’s is no comparison and the difference can be significant.
j

i used a torque wrench and i don't think that was the problem ..The problem was torque specs in the stock manual that came with the bike is wrong,so now all done by feel....

 

[Vikes79]

The silver lining is that your aluminum threads aren’t all jacked up.

Be careful of using standard hex cap bolts from your local hardware store. They may be quite a bit stronger bolts and you risk stripping them the threads on the block.

The bolts purpose is to keep the o-ring seated as mentioned before...that’s it. Use a small wrench and 1/8th turn past finger tight is plenty.

 

[Jut]

I have not had a problem with twisting the bolts on the filter cover of my P5, because I don't use a torque wrench. I learned to use my calibrated arm instead of a torque wrench the first time I changed the oil filter on my CRF450 and twisted one of the bolts.

The torque specs in the manual are not wrong. If they were, they would be wrong in every service manual Honda has produced for years and years. The person doing the torquing is doing it wrong.

I am pretty sure that, unless stated otherwise, all torque specs are considered "dry". That means the threads on the bolt and in the hole are to be free of any lubricants. I think you are going to find it extremely difficult to keep the threads dry on an oil filter cover bolt. A little oil on the threads can make quite a bit of difference in how much torque it takes to put the correct amount of stress in to the bolt. The more lube the easier it is to turn and the high stress per torque. Also, a torque wrench is really only considered +/- 25% accurate anyway. You could easily be putting 1.5x the torque on that little bolt than it's supposed to have.

That's something to remember when you are assembling anything. Unless the manual says to lube the bolt before torquing, it is likely a dry torque. Further more, not all lubes are equal. Each different lube will have a different effect on the torque value.

 

[Mudder]

With that rubber o ring, snug by feel works for me, 1/4 stubby drive.

 

[Neohio]

a torque wrench is really only considered +/- 25% accurate anyway.

Where are you buying torque wrenches? Yard sales? Most are within 4% accuracy on 75% of the scale. Some higher end are less than 4%

 

[DG Rider]

Where are you buying torque wrenches? Yard sales? Most are within 4% accuracy on 75% of the scale. Some higher end are less than 4%

LOL!

I think it's just Honda. For all their quality and fit/finish, they seem to use s***ty fasteners in some areas. Hardly ever see any older cars come in without at least one of the cam cover bolts snapped off.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

I have found Hondas conversion from in# to Nm to be off in the manual on some fasteners. Nm seemed to be more accurate. I believe they use really soft bolts to try to keep from stripping the aluminum. I've gotten to the habit of replacing and having spares of commonly used bolts.

 

[DG Rider]

I have found Hondas conversion from in# to Nm to be off in the manual on some fasteners.

I've run across this as well.

 

[2021ArthurGuinnessX4LV]

Either that or no one knows how to correctly use a torque wrench.
IDK. I don't use torque wrenches for this kind of stuff.

My suggestion.
PUT THE TORQUE WRENCH DOWN...
EVERYONE... STOP USING TORQUE WRENCHES ON THE OIL COVERS... OMG...

hahaha.. .lol. but really, it seems to be a common problem.

RECOMMENDATION
Please use a 1/4" shot ratchet and learn to feel the bolt tight, overtight, and stretching.

Not sure if people are over-torquing them or they are just waiting for that "pop". Unforchently, most of the time it is the bolt poping broke instead of the wrench poping as torqued.

Glad you got yours out without too much trouble.

I just did the first service on my talon and used the torque values that the manual calls for (9ft lbs for the diffs and filter bolts) and agree with your comment. For the next oil change I will just use a 1/4 ratchet and snug them by ‘feel’. I felt like the 9ft# was a little sketchy for aluminum so I’ll just snug them up the next go’round and just check on them after a few rides to make sure nothing has come lose and nothing is leaking.