Anybody running 6 + 1 Wheels and 32" tires? I am considering this setup (opposed to 5+2) in order to try and keep the overall width closer to stock and also to avoid rubbing the fender liner. This would be with 32x10r15 tires.
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Pretty sure this is what my GM is running on his R now.
System 3 Beadlocks
Pro Armour Crawler 32x10x15
1.5" spacers in rear
I don't have a picture of that setup, but I do have one with the 32s on stock rims and his race tires on the beadlocks
System 3 Beadlocks
Pro Armour Crawler 32x10x15
1.5" spacers in rear
I don't have a picture of that setup, but I do have one with the 32s on stock rims and his race tires on the beadlocks
JACKAL
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I understand what you want to do by staying close to OEM width. That said with larger diameter tires the 6+1 offset is MORE likely to rub than say the 5+2 or 4+3 offsets. You will likely not have any rubbing stationary or straight line but possibly when you turn left or right AND the suspension is being compressed, that's when it hits and if hard enough will stop you in your tracks (unlikely situation on the Talon).
Follows the principal to those gay ass wheels sticking way out past those HD trucks, the have to poke them out the side far because of running "usually" a 50% wider tire than OEM as well as a 5-6" larger diameter tire than OEM,
I was hoping that a 6+1 would keep the scrub radius as close to 0 or factory as possible. i'm not sure where exactly these 32s are rubbing for people but I assume it is the outside edge of the tire tread, of the inside tire when at full lock, against the fender liner. Wouldn't having less offset help this issue?
JACKAL
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Less offset put that edge closer to the wheel well liner typically on the drivers side more than the passengers because of how Honda molds the floor tray left of the brake pedal, if it runs typically it is turning left with suspension compressed . What clears in the shop doesn't correlate that it clears in motion.
Oh man, drawing with my finger on this lap top using MS paint a'int the best, but maybe it is good enough for this LOL. The black would be more offset, the red would be less offset. shouldn't that help with the rubbing, not make it worse? Maybe I'm thinking about it completely wrong?
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Nice finger paint, but it doesn't account for the geometry involved governing the arc of the hub (ergo wheel & tire) as it pivots.
But go ahead and do what you want, you seem to have talked yourself into it.
Can't tell you how many dozens of Pioneer 1000 owners listened to Facebook experts that said 30" tires will fit with only a lift. (they don't) So $1000 in tires and wheels then another $600 in forward A arms it kinda clears. Then they had A arm issues, or to inexperienced to set camber properly on adjustable a arms.
My point being, just because someone says it clears no problem may not be using the machine in a manner where it may rub. A new tire mounted on the machine for a test fit is not the same diameter while running 40+ mph.
But go ahead and do what you want, you seem to have talked yourself into it.
Can't tell you how many dozens of Pioneer 1000 owners listened to Facebook experts that said 30" tires will fit with only a lift. (they don't) So $1000 in tires and wheels then another $600 in forward A arms it kinda clears. Then they had A arm issues, or to inexperienced to set camber properly on adjustable a arms.
My point being, just because someone says it clears no problem may not be using the machine in a manner where it may rub. A new tire mounted on the machine for a test fit is not the same diameter while running 40+ mph.
You are correct, the Talon rubs just like you have it drawn and the offset moving the tire closer to the hub and away from the fender but you have your offset backwards. More offset moves the wheel/tire inward and away from the fender when you turn sharp.
Remember, 32" tires range from 30.5" to 32.5" so 32" may or may not rub depending on the tire. When someone says "mine doesn't rub with 32's", could be because his 32's are only 30.5".
Square type tread true 32" tires will rub no matter what offset. Rounded style tread 32" will rub less.
31" (if you can find something you like) should not rub and 30's don't rub at all.
50 mm offset (STI 6+1) wheels will maintain the correct front scrub and widen you slightly with 10" wide tires (45 mm offset System 3 wheels will also work great). You will need 40mm (1.5") wide spacers in the rear to even out the width.
If you want to run anything larger than 31's without rubbing, you will need forward sweep lower control arms.
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Definitely haven't talked myself into it yet. I would really like 32s, but I'd rather have 30's or 31's if it meant they didn't rub. The only thing I'm going off of is back when I was younger buying trucks I didn't need. The most recent one was a ram 3500, and it was basically this same discussion on the forums, 33s clear no problem, but 35s people either said they rubbed or they didn't. And what it came down too was wheel choice. People were putting them on these really far offset wheels and when they turned the steering wheel their tires would kind of swing through the movement and hit the fender liner. I put 35" bfg km2s on stock power wagon wheels and had zero rubbing, full lock, full flex with no sway bar.
I'm just thinking if the 6+1 doesn't hit the a arms or tie rod or any thing at full lock, then surely they give you the best hope at having 32's with no issues?
I have no idea who these guys are or how knowledgeable they are (I didn't even have the audio turned on when I watched it), but I fast forwarded through their video and they show what I am talking about. Wouldn't the same principles apply to our utvs?
I'm just thinking if the 6+1 doesn't hit the a arms or tie rod or any thing at full lock, then surely they give you the best hope at having 32's with no issues?
I have no idea who these guys are or how knowledgeable they are (I didn't even have the audio turned on when I watched it), but I fast forwarded through their video and they show what I am talking about. Wouldn't the same principles apply to our utvs?
Does anyone know for sure what the OEM wheel width is up front and what the offset is? I've seen 6.5" and 6" for widths, not sure about the offset, maybe +50mm? When I measure them with a tape measure It seems more like 7", maybe 6.5" if you are supposed to measure from the inside of the bead?
Either way, when I'm looking at these different aftermarket wheels they seem to be all over the place with their dimensions. Is there a standard way to measure a wheel offset? I thought it was the mounting surface that would touch the hub compared to the center line of the wheel.
Here are some examples of wheels I've been looking at. These are all 14"x7" wheels and 4x136(137) spacing. Why do the backspacing and offset numbers not correlate between manufacturers? These numbers may not be a big deal to some, but they are for me. Look at the difference between a 5+2 raceline compared to a 5+2 STI or system 3, that's over an 1" difference in offset. I want to hold these wheels in as much as possible, but when I turn the factory wheels all the way there is only a 1/4" between the wheel and the a-arm. I'm afraid if I get to big of an offset I may end up rubbing the arm.
System 3:
SB-4 6+1 +45mm
4+3 +15mm
SB-3 5+2 +30mm
SB-5 5+2 +38mm
STI:
HD9 6+1 +50mm
5+2 +30mm
HD A1 5+2 +40mm
Method:
401(ti) 5+2 +38mm
4+3 +13mm
4+4 -2mm
Raceline:
Podium 6+1 +38mm
5+2 +10mm
Trophy 6+1 +38mm
5+2 +10mm
Either way, when I'm looking at these different aftermarket wheels they seem to be all over the place with their dimensions. Is there a standard way to measure a wheel offset? I thought it was the mounting surface that would touch the hub compared to the center line of the wheel.
Here are some examples of wheels I've been looking at. These are all 14"x7" wheels and 4x136(137) spacing. Why do the backspacing and offset numbers not correlate between manufacturers? These numbers may not be a big deal to some, but they are for me. Look at the difference between a 5+2 raceline compared to a 5+2 STI or system 3, that's over an 1" difference in offset. I want to hold these wheels in as much as possible, but when I turn the factory wheels all the way there is only a 1/4" between the wheel and the a-arm. I'm afraid if I get to big of an offset I may end up rubbing the arm.
System 3:
SB-4 6+1 +45mm
4+3 +15mm
SB-3 5+2 +30mm
SB-5 5+2 +38mm
STI:
HD9 6+1 +50mm
5+2 +30mm
HD A1 5+2 +40mm
Method:
401(ti) 5+2 +38mm
4+3 +13mm
4+4 -2mm
Raceline:
Podium 6+1 +38mm
5+2 +10mm
Trophy 6+1 +38mm
5+2 +10mm
Stock front wheels are 6.5" and 50mm offset in the front and 8" and 33mm offset in the rear. Wheel width is always bead to bead.
As I have pointed out sever times in these forums, X+Y offset are basically meaningless (actually rather worthless after seeing the Raceline setbacks).
The standard and proper way is the mm number. A +50mm means that the mounting face is 50mm towards the outside (moving the wheel inward) and a -50mm would be the opposite and push the wheel out.
You should be able to run any wheel (14 or 15) that is 7 inches wide with a maximum +50mm offset without having issues on an X. If you are rubbing on an A-Arm, you may want to check and see if the rack is centered (not the wheel, but the actual rack) and make sure the toe is set to 0.
I have seen MANY talons (mine included) where the wheel is not installed correctly and the steering to be centered to a crooked steering wheel, causing the rack to be off center and making the machine turn sharper to one side and in extreme cases, the wheel be VERY close to the A-Arm so you may want to check this before checking any clearances.
As I have pointed out sever times in these forums, X+Y offset are basically meaningless (actually rather worthless after seeing the Raceline setbacks).
The standard and proper way is the mm number. A +50mm means that the mounting face is 50mm towards the outside (moving the wheel inward) and a -50mm would be the opposite and push the wheel out.
You should be able to run any wheel (14 or 15) that is 7 inches wide with a maximum +50mm offset without having issues on an X. If you are rubbing on an A-Arm, you may want to check and see if the rack is centered (not the wheel, but the actual rack) and make sure the toe is set to 0.
I have seen MANY talons (mine included) where the wheel is not installed correctly and the steering to be centered to a crooked steering wheel, causing the rack to be off center and making the machine turn sharper to one side and in extreme cases, the wheel be VERY close to the A-Arm so you may want to check this before checking any clearances.
Good call on the toe and centered rack. I know my pioneer 1000 was way off. Never even thought to look at this one.
So if I get a 7" wheel with 50mm offset then it should be centered with where the oem wheel was, 1/4" more out and a 1/4" in as well. So maybe I should be shooting for like a 44mm offset so that the inside face will line up with where the oem wheel was and it will stick 1/2" further out than oem. Am I correct in that thinking?
Also if their numbers are so crazy off, is it even safe to assume the mm number is right?
So if I get a 7" wheel with 50mm offset then it should be centered with where the oem wheel was, 1/4" more out and a 1/4" in as well. So maybe I should be shooting for like a 44mm offset so that the inside face will line up with where the oem wheel was and it will stick 1/2" further out than oem. Am I correct in that thinking?
Also if their numbers are so crazy off, is it even safe to assume the mm number is right?
I have 4/3 offsets (Alba Racing) bead locks - 14 inch diameter. 3 inches stick out past the face and 4 inches hang inside the face. I run 32 inch ITP Terra Hooks. They are a relatively square profile fully 32 inch tire. Really great tire. My machine is the X4 which should be the same front end as the X two seater. I get rubbing at full lock with a little suspension drop. It's fine. The noise from rubbing is because it happens to hit right on a pop rivet. Being the longer wheel base, I want the added clearance and a little rubbing which causes me to back off the steering occasionally is fine. I considered forward offset arms, but it's already so long. Besides, changing the geometry is potentially more detrimental than a little rubber rubbing on plastic.
I think the 4/3 offset helps with stability. I've raised the machine 2 inches with the 4 inch taller tire. Plus those taller side walls (9 inches vs 6.5 inches) at low pressure on bead locks have a lot more flex than the little 28 inch tires. I haven't noticed any performance issues regarding scrub radius. I think given the speeds and conditions I ride it, scrub is not a big deal. Short track racers have been using wide offset and large scrub radii for a long time. It might be harder on ball joints and such - surely it is. But that's fine for me. I have a feeling it will be fine.
I've considered using a heat gun and prying the wheel well plastic in with a 2x4 leveraged between the tire and the plastic. But I hate to give up any leg room since I'm kind of tall and it's already a little cramped in the cockpit.
I think the 4/3 offset helps with stability. I've raised the machine 2 inches with the 4 inch taller tire. Plus those taller side walls (9 inches vs 6.5 inches) at low pressure on bead locks have a lot more flex than the little 28 inch tires. I haven't noticed any performance issues regarding scrub radius. I think given the speeds and conditions I ride it, scrub is not a big deal. Short track racers have been using wide offset and large scrub radii for a long time. It might be harder on ball joints and such - surely it is. But that's fine for me. I have a feeling it will be fine.
I've considered using a heat gun and prying the wheel well plastic in with a 2x4 leveraged between the tire and the plastic. But I hate to give up any leg room since I'm kind of tall and it's already a little cramped in the cockpit.
So I ended up going with Raceline Podium beadlock 14x7 6+1(+38) wheels and Sedona Rock-a-billy tires in a 32x10r14. I wanted the same wheels front and rear to rotate them easier so i used 1.5" spacers in the back. These particular wheels/tires did clear without the spacers perfectly fine, but you could visibly tell the rear was narrower than the front. It definitely looked funny. All they had in stock was dragonfire ones, which look really lightweight and weak, but I guess we'll see. They appear well made, just not very much material. They are also marked 4x136 (opposed to 4x137).
The Raceline wheels have optional beadlock spacers for thick beaded tires. Sedona and Raceline are sister companies and both advised I would not need the spacers. They were correct. I mounted them with dish soap and water in my garage with normal tools very easily. If you have an inlb torque wrench you can do it. They seated perfect, don't leak a bit. Yellow balance dot opposite the valve stem.
Now on to the important stuff. I choose the podiums because of the look and also decided I need +38 offset. Pleasantly surprised to find out they are truly a +38 when I measured them which means they are more like a 5+2, not a 6+1 like advertised. Also I decided anything more than +38 would get too close to the A-arms at full lock. I was right, these have about a 1/4" gap, same as the oem wheels. Anyone contemplating between a 14" and a 15" and are worried the 14" won't clear or won't leave enough clearance... don't worry about it if you have an X model. Plenty of room all around the wheel. I really can't hardly tell a difference between these and the oem, granted I didn't look that close before taking the oem's off. Also, the retailer advertised them as 4x137, but the box from raceline they came clearly states 4x136. I know some people care about that so I wanted to mention it.
I choose the Sedona rock-a-billy because I liked the tread pattern, they were the correct size, they have a decent bead protector lip, they are lightweight for a 32 (about 37lb) and most importantly they are specifically designed to run low psi (like 8). I've tried them at 3.5lbs so far and they seem to hold perfectly fine. Will run at 8 normally though. I lucked out again with the tires as they are a little smaller than 32, which is what I was hoping. They measured 31.5" mounted on a wheel, but off of the machine. On the machine with a little tire squish, at 10psi, they measure right at 31".
This worked out perfectly. At full droop and lock they do not rub. At ride height they do not rub at full lock. And best I can tell, they aren't gonna rub when locked and flexed either.
In real life the wheel wells are not shaped like my drawing earlier. Instead of being perpendicular to the frame, the wheel wells are angled back and pretty much match (parallel to) the tread surface of the tire. In other words, after now being able to see it in person, I don't think offset will affect how bad the tires rub or don't rub. The main factor is definitely gonna be tire diameter. And I'm gonna say, a true 32 is going to rub no matter what you do.
The Raceline wheels have optional beadlock spacers for thick beaded tires. Sedona and Raceline are sister companies and both advised I would not need the spacers. They were correct. I mounted them with dish soap and water in my garage with normal tools very easily. If you have an inlb torque wrench you can do it. They seated perfect, don't leak a bit. Yellow balance dot opposite the valve stem.
Now on to the important stuff. I choose the podiums because of the look and also decided I need +38 offset. Pleasantly surprised to find out they are truly a +38 when I measured them which means they are more like a 5+2, not a 6+1 like advertised. Also I decided anything more than +38 would get too close to the A-arms at full lock. I was right, these have about a 1/4" gap, same as the oem wheels. Anyone contemplating between a 14" and a 15" and are worried the 14" won't clear or won't leave enough clearance... don't worry about it if you have an X model. Plenty of room all around the wheel. I really can't hardly tell a difference between these and the oem, granted I didn't look that close before taking the oem's off. Also, the retailer advertised them as 4x137, but the box from raceline they came clearly states 4x136. I know some people care about that so I wanted to mention it.
I choose the Sedona rock-a-billy because I liked the tread pattern, they were the correct size, they have a decent bead protector lip, they are lightweight for a 32 (about 37lb) and most importantly they are specifically designed to run low psi (like 8). I've tried them at 3.5lbs so far and they seem to hold perfectly fine. Will run at 8 normally though. I lucked out again with the tires as they are a little smaller than 32, which is what I was hoping. They measured 31.5" mounted on a wheel, but off of the machine. On the machine with a little tire squish, at 10psi, they measure right at 31".
This worked out perfectly. At full droop and lock they do not rub. At ride height they do not rub at full lock. And best I can tell, they aren't gonna rub when locked and flexed either.
In real life the wheel wells are not shaped like my drawing earlier. Instead of being perpendicular to the frame, the wheel wells are angled back and pretty much match (parallel to) the tread surface of the tire. In other words, after now being able to see it in person, I don't think offset will affect how bad the tires rub or don't rub. The main factor is definitely gonna be tire diameter. And I'm gonna say, a true 32 is going to rub no matter what you do.
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15" tires on 14" rims, that must be one hell of a leak
Joking aside, if they are 14", you need to remove the shock and completely collapse the suspension and check the upper control arm clearance again. This will get smaller and is known to rub on some 14" wheels...
For more info see this thread...
14” wheels dont always clear! Careful!!
With 14” wheels The upper A arm will rub the wheel when the suspension is compressed. I only realized after I took the front wheels off. They rub on both fronts and cut a groove in the wheel. I got new wheels and ground down the end of the arm. Easy fix. I ride primarily on the Oregon dunes. So...
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