BRed Another MUV700 dead camshaft (Caltric or OEM?)

[fmjnax]

I am about to be on my 3rd camshaft in my 2011 MUV700. When I got the machine, the lobes were rounded so I replaced it with an OEM. A few months later and the machine broke down again. I parked it for a while and just got around to tearing it down again. As expected, the lobes are extremely worn down again.

I've seen discussion about there being a suspected production batch issue with the hardening. The only non-OEM cam I know of is Caltric, but I've read hit-or-miss things on them, in general. So now I'm in a bit of a conundrum. Do I buy another OEM cam and gamble with it being from a poor production run, or do I save a few bucks and gamble with Caltric's hit-or-miss? If I go Caltric, I can get 2 for the price of one OEM and technically have a quick spare. If I go OEM again and get unlucky again, I could be back inside the engine yet again for another cam in the near future. On the other hand, I could get lucky with Caltric or I could finally get lucky with OEM.... Hmmmm......

Has anyone used the Caltric cam with good results to where it might be worth the gamble? Or does it still make the most sense to try my hand at another OEM? What do ya'll think?

 

[Admin]

 

[HondaTech]

Are you replacing the lifter buckets as well?

 

[fmjnax]

Yes, new buckets/followers on the way! They didn’t look terrible, but definitely didn’t look good enough for me to want to use them again. Even though the cam was obvious, I split the case since it was already on the bench and I am spec’ing out everything. I’ll be replacing anything that is out of spec or looks bad.

 

[HondaTech]

Yes, new buckets/followers on the way! They didn’t look terrible, but definitely didn’t look good enough for me to want to use them again. Even though the cam was obvious, I split the case since it was already on the bench and I am spec’ing out everything. I’ll be replacing anything that is out of spec or looks bad.

Had you replaced them with previous camshafts?

 

[fmjnax]

Negative. They had LOOKED good the first time so I reused and didn't put any additional thought into it.

As an aside, I'm not 100% convinced the cam failure this time was due to a manufacturer defect (which is why I'm thoroughly going through the engine). The timing was way off when I took it apart. So bad that is seems unfathomable that I messed it up during assembly. As I split the case, I found that the ear on the crankcase where the cam chain guide rests had broken. I had a suspicion that it could have allowed the chain to jump, thus causing the issue. However, the ear that broke off was clean and so far none of the components in that section of the case are damaged so it may have occurred during disassembly. I welded/built material back up to remedy that problem, though.

 

[HondaTech]

You probably had a bad tensioner as well.
We always replaced buckets with cams. No matter what.

 

[fmjnax]

Thanks for the insight, HT! I don’t recall noticing any issues with the tensioner springing back but haven’t got to it yet to know how it looks, but I’ll go ahead and get one ordered.

 

[hyltonjeremy]

Only had our 2010 for about 4 years now but I’ve learned a few things. There are a few screens in the bottom of the engine that get clogged and this prevents the cam from getting oil which I believe is the reason for the cam wearing out sooner than they should and the clutches from not getting proper oil pressure . After watching many YouTube videos and scratching my head for 2 months as to why the machine would not move due to low oil pressure I did what may not seem like a good idea to most. I drained the oil, put the plug back in and added 3 quarts of pure gasoline down the oil fill tube. I did this because I needed to clean the oil screens in the lower end without pulling the engine and splitting the cases. It was a last ditch effort but it payed off. I shook the machine back and forth every 8 hours or when it was convenient then drained gas after 24 hours. I then put the plug back in and added 1gallon of desiel to help break up the crud in the screens. I let that soak for another 24 hours and then drained the engine. I put the air to it, not much pressure maybe 60 lbs to help break up any crud down in the engine. Blew it in from the oil filter ports and the oil level stick hole. I drained this into a clean pan and found particles that definitely could have plugged the screens. I then filled the engine with 3 quarts of oil and ran it for 3-5 minutes. There was some blue smoke from a little residual desiel but it cleared up quickly. I then drained the oil and added another 3 quarts, the thing took right off and drove great! It went from 10lbs oil pressure to 114lbs. I purchased the stock Honda banjo bolt kit but didn’t need the expensive Honda oil pressure gauge. I unscrewed the Honda fitting from the loop that the banjo bolt goes threw and threaded the Harbor Freight hose directly in to the fitting. Perfect fit! No need to buy the $85 Honda gauge. Hope this helps, I think it is a poor design to have these screens down in the bowels of the engine. Prevents both the cam from getting lubed and the clutches from getting the proper oil pressure to operate.

 

[HondaTech]

Only had our 2010 for about 4 years now but I’ve learned a few things. There are a few screens in the bottom of the engine that get clogged and this prevents the cam from getting oil which I believe is the reason for the cam wearing out sooner than they should and the clutches from not getting proper oil pressure . After watching many YouTube videos and scratching my head for 2 months as to why the machine would not move due to low oil pressure I did what may not seem like a good idea to most. I drained the oil, put the plug back in and added 3 quarts of pure gasoline down the oil fill tube. I did this because I needed to clean the oil screens in the lower end without pulling the engine and splitting the cases. It was a last ditch effort but it payed off. I shook the machine back and forth every 8 hours or when it was convenient then drained gas after 24 hours. I then put the plug back in and added 1gallon of desiel to help break up the crud in the screens. I let that soak for another 24 hours and then drained the engine. I put the air to it, not much pressure maybe 60 lbs to help break up any crud down in the engine. Blew it in from the oil filter ports and the oil level stick hole. I drained this into a clean pan and found particles that definitely could have plugged the screens. I then filled the engine with 3 quarts of oil and ran it for 3-5 minutes. There was some blue smoke from a little residual desiel but it cleared up quickly. I then drained the oil and added another 3 quarts, the thing took right off and drove great! It went from 10lbs oil pressure to 114lbs. I purchased the stock Honda banjo bolt kit but didn’t need the expensive Honda oil pressure gauge. I unscrewed the Honda fitting from the loop that the banjo bolt goes threw and threaded the Harbor Freight hose directly in to the fitting. Perfect fit! No need to buy the $85 Honda gauge. Hope this helps, I think it is a poor design to have these screens down in the bowels of the engine. Prevents both the cam from getting lubed and the clutches from getting the proper oil pressure to operate.

What's weird is the Pioneer 700 doesn't seem to be affected by the problem. The screens are designed to keep the oil pump from ingesting large chunks.

 

[fmjnax]

I never like leaving threads "open" so here's my outcome, in case anyone searches for the same thing in the future.

I went with an OEM camshaft. However, I did use quite a few other Caltric parts. We're stilling breaking the engine in, but so far everything is going well. Running better than it ever has since I took ownership. I might FINALLY have all of the gremlins worked out. I will report back if any of the parts fail prematurely, though.

Ended up replacing the following:
Clutch discs and metals - OEM
Oil chain - Caltric
Timing chain - OEM
Chain guides - OEM
Followers/buckets - OEM
Tensioner - Caltric
Cylinder/Piston/Rings - Caltric
Valves/Springs/Seals - Caltric
Gasket set - Caltric
Oil Temp Sensor - Caltric
Bearings (as needed) - Mix of generic and OEM
Spark plug - OEM-recommended NGK
Air filter - Caltric (with K&N spray oil)
Various broken bolts - OEM

 

[Muggster71]

I never like leaving threads "open" so here's my outcome, in case anyone searches for the same thing in the future.

I went with an OEM camshaft. However, I did use quite a few other Caltric parts. We're stilling breaking the engine in, but so far everything is going well. Running better than it ever has since I took ownership. I might FINALLY have all of the gremlins worked out. I will report back if any of the parts fail prematurely, though.

Ended up replacing the following:
Clutch discs and metals - OEM
Oil chain - Caltric
Timing chain - OEM
Chain guides - OEM
Followers/buckets - OEM
Tensioner - Caltric
Cylinder/Piston/Rings - Caltric
Valves/Springs/Seals - Caltric
Gasket set - Caltric
Oil Temp Sensor - Caltric
Bearings (as needed) - Mix of generic and OEM
Spark plug - OEM-recommended NGK
Air filter - Caltric (with K&N spray oil)
Various broken bolts - OEM

Hello, just recently joined. I have a 2009 big red with an apparently bad camshaft and was going to order parts for it. I was warned against the caltric camshaft so gonna go oem. I was going to just replace the camshaft, buckets, chain and tensioner. Is there any particular reason you replaced all the other things or did you just do it as a precautionary measure?

 

[Muggster71]

Only had our 2010 for about 4 years now but I’ve learned a few things. There are a few screens in the bottom of the engine that get clogged and this prevents the cam from getting oil which I believe is the reason for the cam wearing out sooner than they should and the clutches from not getting proper oil pressure . After watching many YouTube videos and scratching my head for 2 months as to why the machine would not move due to low oil pressure I did what may not seem like a good idea to most. I drained the oil, put the plug back in and added 3 quarts of pure gasoline down the oil fill tube. I did this because I needed to clean the oil screens in the lower end without pulling the engine and splitting the cases. It was a last ditch effort but it payed off. I shook the machine back and forth every 8 hours or when it was convenient then drained gas after 24 hours. I then put the plug back in and added 1gallon of desiel to help break up the crud in the screens. I let that soak for another 24 hours and then drained the engine. I put the air to it, not much pressure maybe 60 lbs to help break up any crud down in the engine. Blew it in from the oil filter ports and the oil level stick hole. I drained this into a clean pan and found particles that definitely could have plugged the screens. I then filled the engine with 3 quarts of oil and ran it for 3-5 minutes. There was some blue smoke from a little residual desiel but it cleared up quickly. I then drained the oil and added another 3 quarts, the thing took right off and drove great! It went from 10lbs oil pressure to 114lbs. I purchased the stock Honda banjo bolt kit but didn’t need the expensive Honda oil pressure gauge. I unscrewed the Honda fitting from the loop that the banjo bolt goes threw and threaded the Harbor Freight hose directly in to the fitting. Perfect fit! No need to buy the $85 Honda gauge. Hope this helps, I think it is a poor design to have these screens down in the bowels of the engine. Prevents both the cam from getting lubed and the clutches from getting the proper oil pressure to operate.

“When” and /or “did” you change the oil filter in this process?

 

[Kelster]

Hey Guys; You can add me to the list of Dead Cams on a 2013 MUV700, very low mileage, so clearly a 'known problem' and a weak point of this machine. My tech tells me he's done a bunch of these, on Pioneers & Rubicons - all Hondas. Sad to see Honda take such a dive in quality.

 

[DG Rider]

Hey Guys; You can add me to the list of Dead Cams on a 2013 MUV700, very low mileage, so clearly a 'known problem' and a weak point of this machine. My tech tells me he's done a bunch of these, on Pioneers & Rubicons - all Hondas. Sad to see Honda take such a dive in quality.

Pioneers and Rubicons...or Rincons? The latter makes sense, since that's where the BR and Pioneer 700 got that engine of theirs. And they were known for it as well.

Don't think I've ever heard much about Rubicons having this issue, though.