P1000 DCT won’t shift past 3rd gear

[john7143]

My 2020 will not shift past 3rd gear when in AT mode, and if I shift to 4th in MT mode the engine rapidly slows like it’s going to stall until I shift back down to 3rd. If I shift the sub-transmission from H to L, I can get into 4th gear but not 5th. The engine/DCT oil level is good, I have done the clutch relearn, and I’ve disconnected and reconnected the batteries. I can‘t seem to find any information on this issue or anything similar. Any help on where to look or what to try would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[Remington]

First, Welcome from Michigan

We need a few things before we start. Fist is Pica of your rig as in Pics Or It Didnt Happen!
Second, miles on the rig and any mods, 1 battery or 2 and how do u have them hooked up? All makes a difference in this issue.

 

[john7143]

Yes, sorry about that. It’s a 2020 SXS1000M5DL, 67 hours, 675 miles, 6” SATV lift, 6” SATV 45% portals, Rhino 2.0 axles, Rough Country coil over shocks, Keller ball joints, chromoly steering spherical rod ends, billet steering box, 40” BKT tires, dual batteries with winch, light bar/pods, and sound system. This SXS is new to me so I did not do any of the work to it, but I can provide whatever additional specifics needed. Thanks again.

 

[HBarlow]

You didn't mention the two most relevant bits of information.: At what road speed are you driving when you say the DCT won't upshift beyond 3rd gear? And what engine rpm are you winding it to? Will if shift up if you wind the engine to redline?

Unfortunately, you're not going to like my comments.

I suspect the oversized tires and wheels play a major role in the shift problem. Those tires and wheels dramatically alter final gearing. I assume "45% portals" are meant to offset the effect on gearing created by the tires and wheels but even if gearing equals out mathematically the torque required to spin those heavy wheels and tires and the power losses in the portals probably add up to more than that little 1000cc engine can handle. Perhaps you could swap in an 1832cc flat six from a Goldwing?

Do you know someone else with a Pioneer using the same portals, wheels, and tires you can compare to yours?

No dealer is going to touch that thing.

Edit: Did you keep the original wheels and tires? If you did remount them and I'll bet the DCT will quickly shift up to 6th gear.

 

[john7143]

When in AUTO, The DCT will not shift beyond 3rd in high range, or beyond 4th when in low range, regardless of road speed or engine RPM. In MANUAL, if I shift beyond 3rd in high range, or beyond 4th in low range, using the paddle shifter on the steering wheel, the engine begins to stall, regardless of road speed or engine RPM.

I did not build it. It came to me as is and I do not have any OEM parts that were taken off.

I hardly expect dealers to touch the things they should, let alone this SXS. I will fix whatever the issue is and am more the capable to do so. I am just looking information, ideas, or someone who has had a similar DCT issue, as this SXS and the DCT are new to me.

 

[HBarlow]

When in AUTO, The DCT will not shift beyond 3rd in high range, or beyond 4th when in low range, regardless of road speed or engine RPM. In MANUAL, if I shift beyond 3rd in high range, or beyond 4th in low range, using the paddle shifter on the steering wheel, the engine begins to stall, regardless of road speed or engine RPM.

I did not build it. It came to me as is and I do not have any OEM parts that were taken off.

I hardly expect dealers to touch the things they should, let alone this SXS. I will fix whatever the issue is and am more the capable to do so. I am just looking information, ideas, or someone who has had a similar DCT issue, as this SXS and the DCT are new to me.

The DCT is controlled by an ECM. The ECM is protecting the engine and transmission from lugging. The little 1000cc engine simply lacks the power (torque) to handle the load created by the wheels and tires in a higher gear.

Borrow a set of OEM or similar sized wheels and tires and I'm confident your problem will disappear.

 

[john7143]

I would certainly try smaller tires if I came across any, and I don’t disagree that the larger wheels/tires take additional torque to spin and are heavier. However, with the gear reduction of portal boxes being at each wheel, the rest of the drive train should not be over worked, assuming the gear reduction in the portal box is proper. I have not done the exact math, but from looking at different manufacturers of portal gear boxes, it seems the increased tire size of this SXS over the stock size would call for a 45% or 60% gear reduction portal box. So if the portal reduction makes up for the loss of reduction from the tires, I wouldn’t think the heavier wheels/tires are the problem. I could see that contributing to the issue, but not the sole cause. This SXS has been setup and used like this for around 4 years now. It drove fine for me one morning and later that evening started doing this.

 

[bumperm]

The DCT is controlled by an ECM. The ECM is protecting the engine and transmission from lugging. The little 1000cc engine simply lacks the power (torque) to handle the load created by the wheels and tires in a higher gear.

Borrow a set of OEM or similar sized wheels and tires and I'm confident your problem will disappear.

Not intending to argue, but before be swapping parts out, I'd find a nice downhill or even just a level road (without a strong headwind). See if it'll shift properly with less of a load on motor and tranny. If it does, that's a sign @HBarlow is barking up the right tree.

Both the perhaps "more normal" things I've experienced that prevented up-shifting, the seat belt interlock was easy enough. The Neutral Sense Switch was tougher to figure out.

If the engine is bogging down, it might also be fuel or fuel system related.

 

[Remington]

6” SATV 45% portals

Well……

Seen it time and time again!

 

[HBarlow]

Not intending to argue, but before be swapping parts out, I'd find a nice downhill or even just a level road (without a strong headwind). See if it'll shift properly with less of a load on motor and tranny. If it does, that's a sign @HBarlow is barking up the right tree.

Both the perhaps "more normal" things I've experienced that prevented up-shifting, the seat belt interlock was easy enough. The Neutral Sense Switch was tougher to figure out.

If the engine is bogging down, it might also be fuel or fuel system related.

That rig might, just might be able to shift up on a very steep downhill run but there are no hills in Florida

 

[DRZRon1]

I would certainly try smaller tires if I came across any, and I don’t disagree that the larger wheels/tires take additional torque to spin and are heavier. However, with the gear reduction of portal boxes being at each wheel, the rest of the drive train should not be over worked, assuming the gear reduction in the portal box is proper. I have not done the exact math, but from looking at different manufacturers of portal gear boxes, it seems the increased tire size of this SXS over the stock size would call for a 45% or 60% gear reduction portal box. So if the portal reduction makes up for the loss of reduction from the tires, I wouldn’t think the heavier wheels/tires are the problem. I could see that contributing to the issue, but not the sole cause. This SXS has been setup and used like this for around 4 years now. It drove fine for me one morning and later that evening started doing this.

hi - thanks for posting a pic

here is what I suggest to start with:
-both cylinders firing? spray water on each manifold header, use a temp gun, meat thermometer - you will know if u have a plug out
-check air intake and filter for blockage/nest, etc. - want to check u have enough air
-you have a voltmeter inside cab? have battery tested - more than 1issue due to bad batree, a voltmeter when this is happening would be a data point
-check all connectors around shift solenoids

btw - you have a set of em for wanting more than 3rd gear out of that machine and turning the wheel

also - just to verify - all good one day and then this problem the next day? no crashes, swamping, additional accessories, etc. between ran fine and now doesn't run fine?

 

[john7143]

hi - thanks for posting a pic

here is what I suggest to start with:
-both cylinders firing? spray water on each manifold header, use a temp gun, meat thermometer - you will know if u have a plug out
-check air intake and filter for blockage/nest, etc. - want to check u have enough air
-you have a voltmeter inside cab? have battery tested - more than 1issue due to bad batree, a voltmeter when this is happening would be a data point
-check all connectors around shift solenoids

btw - you have a set of em for wanting more than 3rd gear out of that machine and turning the wheel

also - just to verify - all good one day and then this problem the next day? no crashes, swamping, additional accessories, etc. between ran fine and now doesn't run fine?

Right, worked fine in AM few days ago, sat in the shop untouched, and then this happened same day in the PM.

 

[JenElio]

Right, worked fine in AM few days ago, sat in the shop untouched, and then this happened same day in the PM.

If you haven't already, I'd put it up on a lift and run it on 4WD to see if there's any difference. Might also check shift position sensor(s)??

And I agree, if the portals are doing their job the oversized tires shouldn't have that big of an affect on engine.

 

[john7143]

If you haven't already, I'd put it up on a lift and run it on 4WD to see if there's any difference. Might also check shift position sensor(s)??

And I agree, if the portals are doing their job the oversized tires shouldn't have that big of an affect on engine.

Yeah, I’m cleaning up all the wiring now and looking for electrical issues. After that I’ll put it on the lift, the shift cables need adjustment anyway.

 

[Jerryg]

My guess is the clutches are burnt.

 

[john7143]

My guess is the clutches are burnt.

I will probably go through the transmission regardless. That would mean each clutch works for it’s first two gears but not its third.

 

[JenElio]

I will probably go through the transmission regardless. That would mean each clutch works for it’s first two gears but not its third.

Yeah that's kinda weird that both packs would burn up like that. Maybe previous owner rode 4th/5th gears a lot in low rpms???

 

[john7143]

Cleaning up the electrical wiring fixed it. It was a mess under the hood. I removed a bunch that wasn’t in use and cleaned all the connections. The only non factory stuff I left was the dual battery set up/TrueAm isolator and the winch. I’m guessing one of the batteries had a bad connection(s). The DCT shifts as it should now.

 

[Mopower58]

Cleaning up the electrical wiring fixed it. It was a mess under the hood. I removed a bunch that wasn’t in use and cleaned all the connections. The only non factory stuff I left was the dual battery set up/TrueAm isolator and the winch. I’m guessing one of the batteries had a bad connection(s). The DCT shifts as it should now.

Congrats on finding the problem. Down here in Mississippi there are a LOT of sxs’s with portals and tall mud tires.

 

[DRZRon1]

Cleaning up the electrical wiring fixed it. It was a mess under the hood. I removed a bunch that wasn’t in use and cleaned all the connections. The only non factory stuff I left was the dual battery set up/TrueAm isolator and the winch. I’m guessing one of the batteries had a bad connection(s). The DCT shifts as it should now.

Outstanding !!!!

Works one morning and not working in evening, not the clutches

The portals and engine are more than adequate for those wheels/tires.