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Talon Guess the Honda Talon Pricing GAME - Prerelease

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CumminsPusher

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I agree the Yamaha YXZ 1000r SS is the direct target Honda is aiming for machine wise. But knocking off the market giant cannibalizing Polaris sales is where the money is at. Go for the guy with 45% market share, not the one with 9%.
It’ll take a bit to throw Polaris! They make more power period. They have dealerships pushing them for kickbacks, parts and service plus secondary sales before the rig gets too many miles, it’s time for another. And those pretty stickers lol. Until Honda power plant has some real balls it’s not going to take enough from Polaris or Can Am to matter. They will even be 20hp off of Yami in stock trim even before the factory turbo setup on the Yami. It’s going to be a tough fight at 100hp.
They need to allow them to be opened up a bit from aftermarket world cheaply. And again they need to come out swinging without any issues to be considered among the masses.
 
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It’ll take a bit to throw Polaris! They make more power period. They have dealerships pushing them for kickbacks, parts and service plus secondary sales before the rig gets too many miles, it’s time for another. And those pretty stickers lol. Until Honda power plant has some real balls it’s not going to take enough from Polaris or Can Am to matter. They will even be 20hp off of Yami in stock trim even before the factory turbo setup on the Yami. It’s going to be a tough fight at 100hp.
They need to allow them to be opened up a bit from aftermarket world cheaply. And again they need to come out swinging without any issues to be considered among the masses.
Here is where I beg to differ, yes big HP, high pressure sales (on dealers at least) fancy bling bling do go so far, peer pressure of being in the cool crowd is a strong second. However all that only goes so far. Sitting here at the campground in TN checking people in, got a group of 10 RZRs all came in last night together. Of 10 machines, 3 are sitting in the lot with bearings out, ball joints, and a 4th now with CVT clutch issues. They come to ride, paying $245a night for a big cabin and all they can do it ride b**** because their 168 HP machines with less than 2000 miles on them aren't trail worthy. This at some point will turn people off and to Honda where they can have fun and ride not spend a day scrambling for piddly parts keeping them grounded.

90HP at 25mph in the mountains is better than 168hp on the trailer.
 

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Here is where I beg to differ, yes big HP, high pressure sales (on dealers at least) fancy bling bling do go so far, peer pressure of being in the cool crowd is a strong second. However all that only goes so far. Sitting here at the campground in TN checking people in, got a group of 10 RZRs all came in last night together. Of 10 machines, 3 are sitting in the lot with bearings out, ball joints, and a 4th now with CVT clutch issues. They come to ride, paying $245a night for a big cabin and all they can do it ride b**** because their 168 HP machines with less than 2000 miles on them aren't trail worthy. This at some point will turn people off and to Honda where they can have fun and ride not spend a day scrambling for piddly parts keeping them grounded.

90HP at 25mph in the mountains is better than 168hp on the trailer.
You’re assuming that a lot of those people will be smart enough to think like you do. I agree that it’s a more practical thought and some will get it but some simply will never get it.

Some are like a moth drawn towards a flame. (No pun intended). The big numbers and shiny stickers will draw them in.
 

snuffnwhisky

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One factor is the aftermarket support for polaris. U can get almost any part for it thats very high quality. If the honda comes in at 20k and add an aftermarket turbo kit for 5k, your in it for 25k vs 16k for the popo. 9k would get u almost an unbreakable drivetrain, i.e. billet diffs, rcv axles, clutch and suspension links, etc.
 

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You’re assuming that a lot of those people will be smart enough to think like you do. I agree that it’s a more practical thought and some will get it but some simply will never get it.

Some are like a moth drawn towards a flame. (No pun intended). The big numbers and shiny stickers will draw them in.
I hear ya, like the guy who sinks $50K into an X3 then decides he needs a house for his babys mama.

The conversion process will take years for some, but eventually people will realize they just want to have fun. Took Honda from 1970 to 1986 on the ATCs but look what it eventually evolved into. The long game is where reliability takes hold.




Screenshot_20181116-163223_Facebook.jpg
 

CumminsPusher

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Here is where I beg to differ, yes big HP, high pressure sales (on dealers at least) fancy bling bling do go so far, peer pressure of being in the cool crowd is a strong second. However all that only goes so far. Sitting here at the campground in TN checking people in, got a group of 10 RZRs all came in last night together. Of 10 machines, 3 are sitting in the lot with bearings out, ball joints, and a 4th now with CVT clutch issues. They come to ride, paying $245a night for a big cabin and all they can do it ride b**** because their 168 HP machines with less than 2000 miles on them aren't trail worthy. This at some point will turn people off and to Honda where they can have fun and ride not spend a day scrambling for piddly parts keeping them grounded.

90HP at 25mph in the mountains is better than 168hp on the trailer.
Oh ya on a lot of that you’re preaching to someone who knows. I can promise with every bone in my body I’ll never buy Polaris again. I’m a Honda guy and will always prefer Honda but after a few failures I do look at my second choice a little stronger. I wouldn’t buy anything but those two as I’m not stupid. Also we don’t need a 100mph machine. Speeds where we ride are lower then rrb actually. I want a capable machine that gets back home, we usually ride alone not in packs of 6-10. If we break down there may never be help along the way and that’s why I b****ed so much while having issues. I will buy the Talon or YXZ whichever I deem better value and more dependable.
But and now a big butt is there are so many buying new Sxs’s and even the Polaris owners swear by those things. They are like Harley owners. Between that and the dealerships it’ll be hard to overcome. Most people that “ride” only put a handful of miles on a rig and buy new every little bit for the newest best thing. For a lot of guys popo still fits that category. Sure Honda resale will kill it but that doesn’t matter to most at time of purchase. You see that in new cars and trucks as well. A pos will still sell because in 5 years it gets replaced. People are a throw away group nowadays. The average person isn’t going to buy a new Honda and actually keep it 10-15 years like my family did with bikes or what many have done with Honda quads. Ya you go out there and they still fire but it’s not the newest bestest so dependablity to that level means nothing to the average. Look at the people that got new LE just because. It’s a short term world.
 

CTDpower

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That's way too cheap, dealers are having to dump RZRs because they've flooded the market.

Theres no way hell the Tallon will be 14k, even if Honda did people would still try to drag dealers down to 12 or 10. Dream on if you think a sport SXS that's serious will ever be under 18k.

Besides if this thing is what its suppose to be, the RZR will be long forgotten in a few years. People are tired of fixing junk time and time again.
I didn't really mean a 14k msrp, you just need to be able to get one for 14 or 15k. An 18k sticker would be fine as long as a year end clearance price is still 14-15k.

I get these email ads daily on my phone from one dealer or another. I don't care what the msrp is as long the sale price is reasonable. I know Honda will get some sales at msrp, but in the long run it seems to me they'd get more sales with a reasonable msrp that would actually make those diehard rzr buyers even glance this direction.

I've never owned a Polaris anything. But I've seen a lot of them run. I've seen a lot of them break. And there are a good amount of broken ones, but when I consider that like 90% of all the utvs where I ride are Polaris, and considering how hard they abuse them, I'd say it is an acceptable failure rate... probably not anymore than Honda's? I guess what I'm saying is, I would be surprised if the talon is really any better than a rzr or maverick, so Honda better make the price right.

Screenshot_20181116-170341.png
 

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Even the power deficit isn't such a huge deal, everything but the YZX is belt driven. You lose much more HP though a belt drive, so realistically that 168HP is making it to the tires. If the Talon is only around 110HP, it should be faster than the equivalent RZR or whatever due to driveline loss.

Hell the P1K can give a 900 or even 1000 Ranger a run with only 72 ; )
 

CumminsPusher

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Even the power deficit isn't such a huge deal, everything but the YZX is belt driven. You lose much more HP though a belt drive, so realistically that 168HP is making it to the tires. If the Talon is only around 110HP, it should be faster than the equivalent RZR or whatever due to driveline loss.

Hell the P1K can give a 900 or even 1000 Ranger a run with only 72 ; )
Id read about 30% in the YXZ manual and that was on par with the belt drives. I expect that to be pretty close then with the Honda.
 

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Oh ya on a lot of that you’re preaching to someone who knows. I can promise with every bone in my body I’ll never buy Polaris again. I’m a Honda guy and will always prefer Honda but after a few failures I do look at my second choice a little stronger. I wouldn’t buy anything but those two as I’m not stupid. Also we don’t need a 100mph machine. Speeds where we ride are lower then rrb actually. I want a capable machine that gets back home, we usually ride alone not in packs of 6-10. If we break down there may never be help along the way and that’s why I b****ed so much while having issues. I will buy the Talon or YXZ whichever I deem better value and more dependable.
But and now a big butt is there are so many buying new Sxs’s and even the Polaris owners swear by those things. They are like Harley owners. Between that and the dealerships it’ll be hard to overcome. Most people that “ride” only put a handful of miles on a rig and buy new every little bit for the newest best thing. For a lot of guys popo still fits that category. Sure Honda resale will kill it but that doesn’t matter to most at time of purchase. You see that in new cars and trucks as well. A pos will still sell because in 5 years it gets replaced. People are a throw away group nowadays. The average person isn’t going to buy a new Honda and actually keep it 10-15 years like my family did with bikes or what many have done with Honda quads. Ya you go out there and they still fire but it’s not the newest bestest so dependablity to that level means nothing to the average. Look at the people that got new LE just because. It’s a short term world.
My signature shows a history of changing out side by sides for the last few years but I will say, there were issues and I wanted out and up. Especially with the Polaris Rangers. My 2016 P1K EPS was me getting back into a Honda; we actually would call the Ranger "The Honda" as in: "where is the Honda, go get it" I always knew I wanted gear drive, just not the 700, I wanted full size. Then, I wanted the full roof (back seats are pure s***!) and yes an LE.

I will definitely wait a year or two before I buy the new Talon. I've beta tested too many vehicles in the past!
 
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hondabob

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I think it will be great the first year plus I'm way too old to wait. I really didn't wait and have 33, 600 and some miles, half on my Pioneer 1000 and the other half on my 2016 Yamaha YXZ 1000. The guys with the Pioneer 1000 tested the engine package really good and got the clutch update. Honda has been testing the sport model for several years to get the suspension and chassis right. It will take another 6 months to get the 4 seater ready.
 

SuperDutyJohn

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I think it will be great the first year plus I'm way too old to wait. I really didn't wait and have 33, 600 and some miles, half on my Pioneer 1000 and the other half on my 2016 Yamaha YXZ 1000. The guys with the Pioneer 1000 tested the engine package really good and got the clutch update. Honda has been testing the sport model for several years to get the suspension and chassis right. It will take another 6 months to get the 4 seater ready.
I'll definitely wait at least until the 4 seater. I tried very hard back in August to look at all, and I did but, the belt drive and huge cost of the Can Am and Polaris for a belt drive side by side just didn't do it for me.
 

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I do hope Honda comes swinging because the '19 YXZ updates are looking pretty good. Got my first quote today OTD 19,900 for the White SS SE, top of the line, with the FOX RC2 shocks.
Damn that’s good... would have been money ahead to just buy one of them.
 

CumminsPusher

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I do hope Honda comes swinging because the '19 YXZ updates are looking pretty good. Got my first quote today OTD 19,900 for the White SS SE, top of the line, with the FOX RC2 shocks.
Saturday if it’s ready we’re going to test drive one in our actual stomping grounds...dealer is a friend but quoted around 18 otd. I’d go manual with Rekluse myself. Hell of a machine, Honda has to really be something
 
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snuffnwhisky

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Saturday if it’s ready we’re going to test drive one in our actual stomping grounds...dealer is a friend but quoted around 18 otd. I’d go manual with Rekluse myself. Hell of a machine, Honda has to really be something
The Rekluse is nice for the stick and still allows a rev'ed/slipped clutch takeoff.
 

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I believe the Talon will land like most Honda ATV/side by side products; that is, it will be more conservative (hp/speed) vs coming out with something that out runs, out jumps, etc the competition. Also, I don’t believe you will see any from the factory with snorkel kits, etc., but rather a very nice, highly reliable trail machine that folks will enjoy weekend and week out with minimal maintenance.
 

hondabob

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We can count on the Talon being better then the RZR1000 in everyway including price. The RZR 1000 works great but it still has several problems and will need a lot of repair to get it to 10,000 miles. Since 2014 there has been a few improvements. The 14 and 15 had some major failures, the 16 on are better. My RZR 900 needed a lot of work and upgrades to improve reliability and it still had a lot of failures to get it to 11,000 miles.
 
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snuffnwhisky

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Saturday if it’s ready we’re going to test drive one in our actual stomping grounds...dealer is a friend but quoted around 18 otd. I’d go manual with Rekluse myself. Hell of a machine, Honda has to really be something
Try some vertical wall or tree climbs if u can and see how it acts and let me know.
 

JACKAL

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One them Talon models can do this at 60 mph. I seent it... .....

 
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