Has anyone ever taken apart the EPS units on these things?

[DG Rider]

Anyone ever take apart the EPS units on a Honda SxS? Specifically, the top plastic cap?

If you've paid much attention to these things, you know there is some flexible amount of play in them, which I assume to be the torque sensor.

As it gets miles on it, this gets slightly worse with an audible clack when riding over rocks and such. That, combined with the clack in the rack and pinion from a slight amount of slack...AND the slop in the steering shaft bushings in the column...and you get a pretty junky sounding machine at times.

Both of my 700's had a little from day one (This is an area where Honda could do better), but the current one with EPS just adds that little element.

Some Kia/Hyundai models have a little rubber ninja star under that top cover that can be replaced. Just wondering if these are similar...though I don't know where you'd get a replacement...

 

[Admin]

 

[Plumber32]

Anyone ever take apart the EPS units on a Honda SxS? Specifically, the top plastic cap?

If you've paid much attention to these things, you know there is some flexible amount of play in them, which I assume to be the torque sensor.

As it gets miles on it, this gets slightly worse with an audible clack when riding over rocks and such. That, combined with the clack in the rack and pinion from a slight amount of slack...AND the slop in the steering shaft bushings in the column...and you get a pretty junky sounding machine at times.

Both of my 700's had a little from day one (This is an area where Honda could do better), but the current one with EPS just adds that little element.

Some Kia/Hyundai models have a little rubber ninja star under that top cover that can be replaced. Just wondering if these are similar...though I don't know where you'd get a replacement...

Probably your lug nuts. What spark plug gap you running these days?

 

[DG Rider]

Probably your lug nuts. What spark plug gap you running these days?

'bout 5 feet.

 

[DG Rider]

Well...I'll take that as a hard "NO" on someone disassembling the $900 EPS units just for kicks then.

 

[lee]

didn't see this before.
No ninja star - just a steel torsion bar with hard stops to prevent over rotation.

You might be seeing slop in the U-joints.
That system has what, 4 U joints in it.

 

[DG Rider]

didn't see this before.
No ninja star - just a steel torsion bar with hard stops to prevent over rotation.

You might be seeing slop in the U-joints.
That system has what, 4 U joints in it.

Gotta diagram?

No slop in the joints.

Thanks @lee!

 

[lee]

Yes I have a diagram.
No, it's not one I can share.
But a quick interweb search for the gen 1 Insight EPS brings up this image.

Wow it looks so similar to the Pioneer 700 EPS, like the guts where repackaged or something...
(the old EPS used on all SxS and with another repackaging used on Honda ATVs also)
This shows the torsion bar but not the rotation stops.
About the same level as the upper ball bearing there is a bow tie looking hole attached to the lower shaft and a wings attached to the upper shaft.
The wings contact the bow tie to limit the rotation (and it limits the stress on the torsion bar).

 

[DG Rider]

Yes I have a diagram.
No, it's not one I can share.
But a quick interweb search for the gen 1 Insight EPS brings up this image.

View attachment 426770

Wow it looks so similar to the Pioneer 700 EPS, like the guts where repackaged or something...
(the old EPS used on all SxS and with another repackaging used on Honda ATVs also)
This shows the torsion bar but not the rotation stops.
About the same level as the upper ball bearing there is a bow tie looking hole attached to the lower shaft and a wings attached to the upper shaft.
The wings contact the bow tie to limit the rotation (and it limits the stress on the torsion bar).

I figured it's was "proprietary".

So if I'm imagining this right, there's nothing that should have free play from input to output? The torsion shaft simply twists (to a point limited by the stops) and moves the ring inside of sensor that it has the motor act accordingly?

So is it possible what I'm feeling is free play in the teeth from the motor to gear it turns? I guess that would make some sense.
There's definitely a tiny amount of zero load rotation in the center of its travel that has free play. And this rattles. Whether or not that's what I'm hearing or just something combined with some other slop, I don't know.

To be clear, from a functional standpoint this has no effect on the machine. It just feels and sounds kind of clapped out.

 

[DG Rider]

Oh...and thanks again @lee!

 

[DG Rider]

I meant to ask...

Googling the part # keeps coming up with a Talon EPS. Is this really the same unit? Weren't the older talons having trouble with assist dropping out a bit?

If it's the same, I can see it being an issue with big tires. Mine has always dropped a bit of assist under high load/high electrical demands. Don't imagine 32's would make it better. Always figured a bigger battery will help, but I'm not dropping that cash until the original dies.

 

[lee]

The actual EPS hardware is the same (before the new bigger EPS) but the software was different.
And I don't think the Talon comes with 32" tires...

But yes the older EPS was designed for the stock tire on the P700.
It seams to work ok-ish with the stock tire on the P1K.
(this area between the lines has no content)
The Talon dose great with the new EPS.

 

[CID]

I meant to ask...

Googling the part # keeps coming up with a Talon EPS. Is this really the same unit? Weren't the older talons having trouble with assist dropping out a bit?

If it's the same, I can see it being an issue with big tires. Mine has always dropped a bit of assist under high load/high electrical demands. Don't imagine 32's would make it better. Always figured a bigger battery will help, but I'm not dropping that cash until the original dies.

Yes, some of the first Talons had trouble with intermittent power steering, some more than others. Mine is worst when I'm backed up a bank to do a K-turn with all the weight on the front tires; other than that mine works 'ok enough'.

fwiw: Talons are delivered with 28's. I'm running 30's because of my extreme altitudes, lots of guys are running 32's but I could never pull that gearing at elevation.

 

[DG Rider]

(this area between the lines has no content)

I see content.

Talons are delivered with 28's.

Re 32" tires.
I'm aware that the tally doesn't come with "32's". I'm was joking that the first thing everyone does is cram on the biggest tires they can fit, with disregard to how it effects the machine.

 

[DG Rider]

I revisited this again and upon re-examantion,I do believe there is a tiny amount of play in at least 2 of the joints. Odd, since one of those got replaced for the steering recall, and probably has 1-2k less miles than the other. Just to be clear, the teenie weenie amount of slop isn't the noise source.

Joints are now $40 more expensive than they were 4 years ago from RMATV. Saw some on eBay for $70 or so. They are also used on cars, so I'll run it through Repair link at work to see what can be had. Might even throw the one I removed back on FTW.

Closing on on 6k, I can't exactly say this 2020 isn't holding up well...but it certainly hasn't been the zero-cost machine my 2014 was. Over 9k on that machine, and I never noticed any such slop in the joints with it. Maybe the angles are less with the non EPS...I dunno.

 

[terratrooper]

The actual EPS hardware is the same (before the new bigger EPS) but the software was different.
And I don't think the Talon comes with 32" tires...

But yes the older EPS was designed for the stock tire on the P700.
It seams to work ok-ish with the stock tire on the P1K.
(this area between the lines has no content)
The Talon dose great with the new EPS.

Do you know if the new style (2022+ I think) Talon EPS Motor and EPS controller are plug n play in a 2020 Talon?

 

[TripleB]

Do you know if the new style (2022+ I think) Talon EPS Motor and EPS controller are plug n play in a 2020 Talon?

I think it's 2023+ Talons that have the upgraded power steering. The 2023 s models(Basically a rebranded 2022) have the old EPS. And I'm 99% sure it's not a plug and play swap.

 

[terratrooper]

I think it's 2023+ Talons that have the upgraded power steering. The 2023 s models(Basically a rebranded 2022) have the old EPS. And I'm 99% sure it's not a plug and play swap.

Thanks for your reply. The Part #s on Hondas microfiche from two different online vendors list the EPS Motor and EPS Controller as the same part number for 20, 22, and 23 for the X4 Live Valve. Which leads me to believe the PN has been possibly superceded? But I haven't compared wiring harness part numbers. I guess that'll be next on the list.

 

[TripleB]

Thanks for your reply. The Part #s on Hondas microfiche from two different online vendors list the EPS Motor and EPS Controller as the same part number for 20, 22, and 23 for the X4 Live Valve. Which leads me to believe the PN has been possibly superceded? But I haven't compared wiring harness part numbers. I guess that'll be next on the list.

I bet that x4 live valve is a 2023s. Which equals a 2022. If it doesn't go on to 2024 then it's not been superceded.

 

[Vikes79]

Yes, some of the first TaLons had trouble with intermittent power steering, some more than others. Mine is worst when I'm backed up a bank to do a K-turn with all the weight on the front tires; other than that mine works 'ok enough'.

fwiw: Talons are delivered with 28's. I'm running 30's because of my extreme altitudes, lots of guys are running 32's but I could never pull that gearing at elevation.

Yes for sure…32”s and the early talon PS blows chunks. I’ve drove old tractors with no PS that steered better at times vs times the front end has some push on it.

 

[Jason W]

My 24 p1-3 trail has the updated steering and talon front diff , it works flawless