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Talon HONDA TALON - OFFICIAL PICTURES!

JACKAL

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That’s one of the problems for me to test drive an LE. I’m used to 32” tires and IGR. A trail that tests the limits of a stock LE won’t be a big deal for my set up. So I need to drive a stock deluxe and LE back to back.

@sharp told me to come test drive and I will soon but it won’t be a comparison. It will just be a single vehicle drive. At least I’ll get a decent idea of how it performs.
The comparison for me was, I spent a s*** ton of money adding and changing stuff on my deluxe because I thought I needed it, and a bone stock LE accomplished the same trails more comfortably, easier, and no repairs other than tie rods (damn rocks, jumped up and bit me)
 
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Zmorris83

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"yamaha fanboy psychosis" Wow, you clearly haven't been on the forum very long. Welcome from Maryland! I have a P500. Bulletproof, and somewhat modified...;) My beef is with the company in general for many reasons which I won't go into (yet again) here. I am presently the shop supervisor at a Honda marine shop. I have been working on, and with Honda outboards for the last 10 years of my 38 year long career in the design, repair and modification of cars, trucks, heavy equipment, agricultural equipment, motorcycles, boats, etc.. And most recently, I wrote and illustrated the install manual for Torq-Masters 'Torq-Locker' automatic locking differential for the P-500. As far as being "aware that the I-4wd system is an upgrade".... I am quite aware that you believe it is. In my expert opinion, it is a very poor choice for a machine that is clearly intended to be run hard. There are very limited situations where a brake grabbing a low traction wheel will ever work as well as a locked differential. If you get into mud a lot, you already know how quickly brake pads disappear. No pads, no more traction control. Now add the additional wear of the computer applying the brakes continuously every time a wheel starts to spin....
If you have a vehicle with this system (I do) you can do a simple test. Put one of the driving wheels on a slippery surface, and one on good traction- say one wheel on grass and one on pavement. Floor it. See if vehicle accelerates hard- it won't, brakes chattering, lights flashing, computer cuts engine power to nothing. Now do it ten times- rotor on the low traction side smoking, and system shuts down. In a muddy situation, or on snow, that's what the brake system will be subjected to hundreds of times. It's extremely disappointing to me that, yet again, Honda does not give it's customers choices- options. As far as the cost of true locker vs brake grabber, I'm pretty confident that a hydraulic pump, two,or four speed sensors, and programming to the existing computer, is far less expensive in the long run than the materials, complicated machining, and associated components to build, install, and actuate a true locking differential. Try not to get caught up in advertising hype. They have to sell it to you in a way that makes it sound like it's the best thing ever. It's usually just best for the company. And lastly- I do NOT want a Wolverine. I feel that Honda has completely ignored it's customers on so many fronts, that I feel right now that the only machine that will give me everything I want- short of the geared trans- is the Yamaha. It SUCKS, but presently, that's the only choice i.m.o.
Cheers!
Someone claimed to be an expert. Where are the moderators to shut him down for wrong think??? Oh, wait, he's part of the popular crowd here in high school.

I was trying to be funny with the Yamaha fanboy dig. You obviously have a P500 for your profile pic. I can see how it looked like I was serious instead of just giving you a hard time. With that being said, you made a whole myriad of false assumptions about me but I haven't met the required minimum forum posts to defend myself without censorship and permanent ban threats.

BUUUTTTTT,

I'll see if I can walk on egg shells here: I personally think I-4WD is garbage (can I say that without getting threats?). Compared to mechanical devices, electronics are a lot more susceptible to the elements and degradation in general on top of the extra mechanical problems that you stated that certainly could arise. That is the single solitary reason why I own a Deluxe and not a LE. I wanted highly reliable, fully locked diffs. The same reasoning is why I trust my 86 mechanical diesel over my new common rail electronic diesel or my 03 electronic over mechanical diesel.

Mechanical more expensive that electronics? Highly, highly doubtful but maybe I'm just dead wrong. I don't know. Still doubt it.

I am still at a complete loss what relevance a high end sport SXS has with any 50" SXS. To me it's like expecting a new sports car to be a boat.

Everything I've said is probably wrong. I'm only at like 30 posts, what could I possibly know? Anything that I've said that appears to disagree with the popular consensus on this forum is a typo. I agree with everything that everyone says. Y'all are all far superior to me.
 

Cuoutdoors

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Someone claimed to be an expert. Where are the moderators to shut him down for wrong think??? Oh, wait, he's part of the popular crowd here in high school.

I was trying to be funny with the Yamaha fanboy dig. You obviously have a P500 for your profile pic. I can see how it looked like I was serious instead of just giving you a hard time. With that being said, you made a whole myriad of false assumptions about me but I haven't met the required minimum forum posts to defend myself without censorship and permanent ban threats.

BUUUTTTTT,

I'll see if I can walk on egg shells here: I personally think I-4WD is garbage (can I say that without getting threats?). Compared to mechanical devices, electronics are a lot more susceptible to the elements and degradation in general on top of the extra mechanical problems that you stated that certainly could arise. That is the single solitary reason why I own a Deluxe and not a LE. I wanted highly reliable, fully locked diffs. The same reasoning is why I trust my 86 mechanical diesel over my new common rail electronic diesel or my 03 electronic over mechanical diesel.

Mechanical more expensive that electronics? Highly, highly doubtful but maybe I'm just dead wrong. I don't know. Still doubt it.

I am still at a complete loss what relevance a high end sport SXS has with any 50" SXS. To me it's like expecting a new sports car to be a boat.

Everything I've said is probably wrong. I'm only at like 30 posts, what could I possibly know? Anything that I've said that appears to disagree with the popular consensus on this forum is a typo. I agree with everything that everyone says. Y'all are all far superior to me.


Meh...just hang around a bit you'll be fine. People haven't been this fired up since the election, and they all just spent the weekend with inlaws so they probably need to vent a little. Sometimes we (myself included) start to take things too seriously.

I totally disagree with you on the I4wd but thats ok. Come to the takeover event the first weekend in May and I'll let you try mine out. Or just come and have fun its a great time.

Funny how the picture thread turned into b****ing about the I4wd.

FWIW I hope you'll find this forum to be different than the rest. Lots of good folks on here that I've been able to meet and ride with and now call friends.
 
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Zmorris83

Guest
Meh...just hang around a bit you'll be fine. People haven't been this fired up since the election, and they all just spent the weekend with inlaws so they probably need to vent a little. Sometimes we (myself included) start to take things too seriously.

I totally disagree with you on the I4wd but thats ok. Come to the takeover event the first weekend in May and I'll let you try mine out. Or just come and have fun its a great time.

Funny how the picture thread turned into b****ing about the I4wd.

FWIW I hope you'll find this forum to be different than the rest. Lots of good folks on here that I've been able to meet and ride with and now call friends.
I appreciate it bud! I'm sticking around; haters are nothing new to me. I know there are a lot of good people here. I've been lurking around way before I ever joined.

May sounds excellent! I'm definitely in! I'm always ready to ride. I've already put 3000 miles on mine in 4 months.

I've seen the I-4wd system work excellent first hand. Calling it garbage was hyperbole and trolling the haters. I like a lot of the benefits of it. I do see some disadvantages for hard core rock crawling or mudding, two things I have zero interest in, so it's probably the better system for what I do. I just do not like the idea of unnecessary electronics. I am biased in favor of mechanical.
 

Cuoutdoors

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I appreciate it bud! I'm sticking around; haters are nothing new to me. I know there are a lot of good people here. I've been lurking around way before I ever joined.

May sounds excellent! I'm definitely in! I'm always ready to ride. I've already put 3000 miles on mine in 4 months.

I've seen the I-4wd system work excellent first hand. Calling it garbage was hyperbole and trolling the haters. I like a lot of the benefits of it. I do see some disadvantages for hard core rock crawling or mudding, two things I have zero interest in, so it's probably the better system for what I do. I just do not like the idea of unnecessary electronics. I am biased in favor of mechanical.
s*** I'm jealous I haven't been able to put that many miles on in 2 years! I'll have to ride in Texas sometime. You'll have to hit up @Tramguage1 he's down around San Antone and a great guy to ride with. He is also coming to the ride in May.
 
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Zmorris83

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s*** I'm jealous I haven't been able to put that many miles on in 2 years! I'll have to ride in Texas sometime. You'll have to hit up @Tramguage1 he's down around San Antone and a great guy to ride with. He is also coming to the ride in May.
San Antonio is about 10 hours away from me. There are 5 or 6 states closer to me lol.

There is a clause in Texas law that excludes the Pioneer from being an ATV or UTV so I ride mine all around the county on top of taking it everywhere I can find to ride.
 

JWB

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I will have to disagree, strongly in fact, about your description of the characteristics of I-4WD performance in how it acts in low traction situations on one side vs. the other. I have 2600+ miles on a 2016 P1K5D and over 2000 miles on a 2018 P1K LE to gauge experience from. That being said I have ridden in snow and ice a decent amount and considerable driving in mud and slick rock combined in mountainous terrain. I have never, seen any lights flashing, heard any wheel chattering, nor ever experienced reduction in power when powering through a slick environment. Regarding your opinion that I-4WD has accelerated brake wear by design I find is unfounded, my P1K5D brakes were completely wore out at 1800 miles, my LE is still going strong with about half the brake pad material remaining after 2K miles. Both machines have ran in identical conditions in the same location for an apple to apple comparison.

What you described in your post is the exact characteristics of an automotive traction control feature. (Cutting power, lights flashing) Hondas ECM in no way ever cuts power unless you have the seatbelt unbuckled or tip the machine over both are safety features. Full power is being applied in the LE irrespective of available traction.

You can dislike or distrust a technology you don't understand, but it is disingenuous to misrepresent how I-4WD works, and performs under power in slick conditions. Just say you don't trust it etc. if that's how you feel. I'm not sure being a marine based shop supervisor makes anyone an I-4WD expert.

@Tramguage1 what say you about the LE?

I think Joe Pesci said it best.....

Point taken- I hope I am completely wrong!
 

JACKAL

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Point taken- I hope I am completely wrong!
Thanks for understanding, not trying to pick a fight even though it comes off like that. Check this out and my follow up post in this thread after 2000 miles. May shed some light on what that system does.

P1000 - 2018 P1K5LE / I4WD Review
 

Cuoutdoors

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San Antonio is about 10 hours away from me. There are 5 or 6 states closer to me lol.

There is a clause in Texas law that excludes the Pioneer from being an ATV or UTV so I ride mine all around the county on top of taking it everywhere I can find to ride.
Dont you live in Texas? Lol It is the only place I've been that you can drive-in one direction all day and still be in the same damn state. I flew into McAllen and I swear it took 3 days to make Oklahoma.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
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JWB

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Someone claimed to be an expert. Where are the moderators to shut him down for wrong think??? Oh, wait, he's part of the popular crowd here in high school.

I was trying to be funny with the Yamaha fanboy dig. You obviously have a P500 for your profile pic. I can see how it looked like I was serious instead of just giving you a hard time. With that being said, you made a whole myriad of false assumptions about me but I haven't met the required minimum forum posts to defend myself without censorship and permanent ban threats.

BUUUTTTTT,

I'll see if I can walk on egg shells here: I personally think I-4WD is garbage (can I say that without getting threats?). Compared to mechanical devices, electronics are a lot more susceptible to the elements and degradation in general on top of the extra mechanical problems that you stated that certainly could arise. That is the single solitary reason why I own a Deluxe and not a LE. I wanted highly reliable, fully locked diffs. The same reasoning is why I trust my 86 mechanical diesel over my new common rail electronic diesel or my 03 electronic over mechanical diesel.

Mechanical more expensive that electronics? Highly, highly doubtful but maybe I'm just dead wrong. I don't know. Still doubt it.

I am still at a complete loss what relevance a high end sport SXS has with any 50" SXS. To me it's like expecting a new sports car to be a boat.

Everything I've said is probably wrong. I'm only at like 30 posts, what could I possibly know? Anything that I've said that appears to disagree with the popular consensus on this forum is a typo. I agree with everything that everyone says. Y'all are all far superior to me.
Not offended at all! @JACKAL took me to task on the I-4wd thing- and as stated- hope I'm completely wrong! I - like you- don't trust the brake grabby thing at all, and simply won't buy a machine with it. I'm never a fan of added electronic complexity- especially when it is likely to get submerged. It seems you and I are on exactly the same page.:)
 
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Zmorris83

Guest
Dont you live in Texas? Lol It is the only place I've been that you can drive-in one direction all day and still be in the same damn state. I flew into McAllen and I swear it took 3 days to make Oklahoma.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Yes I do. My property line is on the Red River. The border between OK and Texas. I'm only about 2 hours from LA or AR. Takes about the same time to get to Pennsylvania as it does to get to El Paso.
 
Z

Zmorris83

Guest
Here is a good video with some new and in depth info on the Talon

He sounds like a moron. All the mysticism about torque??? A twin makes more torque, but it simultaneously acts like a big single??? Nah bud, that's nonsense. He's obviously lost about the engineering behind this engine family. It fires at 270 and 450 (or 360 and 540 depending on cylinder reverence); nothing like a single. Nothing like a flat plane or a shared pin 360 crank. Polaris does make a twin that fires 720 as a big single though.

Honda, like always, will have a ridiculously broad powerband, similar to the 450 builds that make a few less hp than the Yamaha but make that power from 8k to the 11.5k rev limiter. A few thousand RPM range not just a few hundred RPM like the Yamaha and Suzuki.
 

snuffnwhisky

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He sounds like a moron. All the mysticism about torque??? A twin makes more torque, but it simultaneously acts like a big single??? Nah bud, that's nonsense. He's obviously lost about the engineering behind this engine family. It fires at 270 and 450 (or 360 and 540 depending on cylinder reverence); nothing like a single. Nothing like a flat plane or a shared pin 360 crank. Polaris does make a twin that fires 720 as a big single though.

Honda, like always, will have a ridiculously broad powerband, similar to the 450 builds that make a few less hp than the Yamaha but make that power from 8k to the 11.5k rev limiter. A few thousand RPM range not just a few hundred RPM like the Yamaha and Suzuki.
My ducati's fire at 270/450. I had to look the pioneer up when I first got it because it had a similar sound. Pioneer would really sound awesome at 12:1 and a really big cam.
 
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Zmorris83

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My ducati's fire at 270/450. I had to look the pioneer up when I first got it because it had a similar sound. Pioneer would really sound awesome at 12:1 and a really big cam.
Yes it does! Like a RC51 or any 90 v-twin basically.

I'm torn between ported head, 12.5 to 14 compression, a big cam, E85 and IGR (which would sound wicked) or the far more simple turbo. My brother owns a pro shop and has a ton of porting experience with the Unicam heads so I wouldn't be going in blind. I really need a spare motor to get specs off of. It may be possible to use an existing, off the shelf piston and have big bore & high comp. We did this with the 06+ 450 top end on the 05- bottom for a 14:1 469 using virtually all stock parts.
 

CumminsPusher

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On a Yamaha

Constantly
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( never working on clutchs or replacing belts, period )
Our Yami is the first belt I’ve trusted. Even though I do prefer Dct when I make light of belts it’s not been that one!
You’re quote has been spot on for that little machine.
 
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