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Talon HONDA TALON - OFFICIAL PICTURES!

alloutdoors

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The machine looks very nice and predict there will be a flood of used Pioneers on the market come Spring looking to "upgrade" to a trail machine made by HONDA.
 
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JWB

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I might be interested if they come out with a version in the 50" class. I saw some ride videos today- the suspension is awesome and the fit and finish look amazing. It just won't work on the restricted trails. 104 hp- nice! The other reason I won't be getting one is the I-4wd. A cheap way out of installing a locking diff, and passing the headaches of using brake pads to try controlling an open diff on to the customer. This stuff barely works in the automotive world- wait till it gets submerged in mud a hundred times... This is not going to work for the mud guys, and if you like ripping it up in the snow- good bye brake pads, and hello overheated rotors, and electric brake pump. I guess it'll open up another market for Torq-Masters! I'm now about 90% sure my next machine is going to be a Wolverine, as much as I hate CVT's, at least Yamaha has the best, and now warrants the belt for 10 years- TEN! And i.m.h.o. (and experience) Yamaha's dependability record is easily on par with Honda's.. What a shame.... Good-bye Honda.
 
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Zmorris83

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I might be interested if they come out with a version in the 50" class. I saw some ride videos today- the suspension is awesome and the fit and finish look amazing. It just won't work on the restricted trails. 104 hp- nice! The other reason I won't be getting one is the I-4wd. A cheap way out of installing a locking diff, and passing the headaches of using brake pads to try controlling an open diff on to the customer. This stuff barely works in the automotive world- wait till it gets submerged in mud a hundred times... This is not going to work for the mud guys, and if you like ripping it up in the snow- good bye brake pads, and hello overheated rotors, and electric brake pump. I guess it'll open up another market for Torq-Masters! I'm now about 90% sure my next machine is going to be a Wolverine, as much as I hate CVT's, at least Yamaha has the best, and now warrants the belt for 10 years- TEN! And i.m.h.o. Yamaha's dependability record is easily on par with Honda's.. What a shame.... Good-bye Honda.
Are you trying to pretend that an automated braking system is less expensive than a mechanically locking diff? Are you unaware that the I-4WD system is an "upgrade" over the existing manually locking front differential currently available on other Honda SXSs? Yamaha reliability is a very distant second to Honda at best. If you want a 50" sport machine your choices are crap, crap or a little less crap. Your Yamaha Fanboy psychosis is far too obvious.
 

brenton_B

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I have a Yamaha Wolverine and if you read in the 10 year belt warranty they don't cover if it breaks from general wear. It only covers it if the belt fails....but if it has dirt in it or has ever had water in it... which happens sometimes they won't cover it haha its a nice piece of mind though
 
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JWB

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Are you trying to pretend that an automated braking system is less expensive than a mechanically locking diff? Are you unaware that the I-4WD system is an "upgrade" over the existing manually locking front differential currently available on other Honda SXSs? Yamaha reliability is a very distant second to Honda at best. If you want a 50" sport machine your choices are crap, crap or a little less crap. Your Yamaha Fanboy psychosis is far too obvious.
"yamaha fanboy psychosis" Wow, you clearly haven't been on the forum very long. Welcome from Maryland! I have a P500. Bulletproof, and somewhat modified...;) My beef is with the company in general for many reasons which I won't go into (yet again) here. I am presently the shop supervisor at a Honda marine shop. I have been working on, and with Honda outboards for the last 10 years of my 38 year long career in the design, repair and modification of cars, trucks, heavy equipment, agricultural equipment, motorcycles, boats, etc.. And most recently, I wrote and illustrated the install manual for Torq-Masters 'Torq-Locker' automatic locking differential for the P-500. As far as being "aware that the I-4wd system is an upgrade".... I am quite aware that you believe it is. In my expert opinion, it is a very poor choice for a machine that is clearly intended to be run hard. There are very limited situations where a brake grabbing a low traction wheel will ever work as well as a locked differential. If you get into mud a lot, you already know how quickly brake pads disappear. No pads, no more traction control. Now add the additional wear of the computer applying the brakes continuously every time a wheel starts to spin....
If you have a vehicle with this system (I do) you can do a simple test. Put one of the driving wheels on a slippery surface, and one on good traction- say one wheel on grass and one on pavement. Floor it. See if vehicle accelerates hard- it won't, brakes chattering, lights flashing, computer cuts engine power to nothing. Now do it ten times- rotor on the low traction side smoking, and system shuts down. In a muddy situation, or on snow, that's what the brake system will be subjected to hundreds of times. It's extremely disappointing to me that, yet again, Honda does not give it's customers choices- options. As far as the cost of true locker vs brake grabber, I'm pretty confident that a hydraulic pump, two,or four speed sensors, and programming to the existing computer, is far less expensive in the long run than the materials, complicated machining, and associated components to build, install, and actuate a true locking differential. Try not to get caught up in advertising hype. They have to sell it to you in a way that makes it sound like it's the best thing ever. It's usually just best for the company. And lastly- I do NOT want a Wolverine. I feel that Honda has completely ignored it's customers on so many fronts, that I feel right now that the only machine that will give me everything I want- short of the geared trans- is the Yamaha. It SUCKS, but presently, that's the only choice i.m.o.
Cheers!
 

JWB

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I have a Yamaha Wolverine and if you read in the 10 year belt warranty they don't cover if it breaks from general wear. It only covers it if the belt fails....but if it has dirt in it or has ever had water in it... which happens sometimes they won't cover it haha its a nice piece of mind though
Ya, I read it, and I hear you. After I saw the 'guarantee' I started doing some research, and have found that very, very few Yamaha owners have ever had a belt failure, and the system seems to be known as the best CVT on the market. So if I have to be stuck with a CVT...seems like a 'no-brainer'
 
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JACKAL

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"yamaha fanboy psychosis" Wow, you clearly haven't been on the forum very long. Welcome from Maryland! I have a P500. Bulletproof, and somewhat modified...;) My beef is with the company in general for many reasons which I won't go into (yet again) here. I am presently the shop supervisor at a Honda marine shop. I have been working on, and with Honda outboards for the last 10 years of my 38 year long career in the design, repair and modification of cars, trucks, heavy equipment, agricultural equipment, motorcycles, boats, etc.. And most recently, I wrote and illustrated the install manual for Torq-Masters 'Torq-Locker' automatic locking differential for the P-500. As far as being "aware that the I-4wd system is an upgrade".... I am quite aware that you believe it is. In my expert opinion, it is a very poor choice for a machine that is clearly intended to be run hard. There are very limited situations where a brake grabbing a low traction wheel will ever work as well as a locked differential. If you get into mud a lot, you already know how quickly brake pads disappear. No pads, no more traction control. Now add the additional wear of the computer applying the brakes continuously every time a wheel starts to spin....
If you have a vehicle with this system (I do) you can do a simple test. Put one of the driving wheels on a slippery surface, and one on good traction- say one wheel on grass and one on pavement. Floor it. See if vehicle accelerates hard- it won't, brakes chattering, lights flashing, computer cuts engine power to nothing. Now do it ten times- rotor on the low traction side smoking, and system shuts down In a muddy situation, or on snow, that's what the brake system will be subjected to hundreds of times. It's extremely disappointing to me that, yet again, Honda does not give it's customers choices- options. As far as the cost of true locker vs brake grabber, I'm pretty confident that a hydraulic pump, two,or four speed sensors, and programming to the existing computer, is far less expensive in the long run than the materials, complicated machining, and associated components to build, install, and actuate a true locking differential. Try not to get caught up in advertising hype. They have to sell it to you in a way that makes it sound like it's the best thing ever. It's usually just best for the company. And lastly- I do NOT want a Wolverine. I feel that Honda has completely ignored it's customers on so many fronts, that I feel right now that the only machine that will give me everything I want- short of the geared trans- is the Yamaha. It SUCKS, but presently, that's the only choice i.m.o.
Cheers!
I will have to disagree, strongly in fact, about your description of the characteristics of I-4WD performance in how it acts in low traction situations on one side vs. the other. I have 2600+ miles on a 2016 P1K5D and over 2000 miles on a 2018 P1K LE to gauge experience from. That being said I have ridden in snow and ice a decent amount and considerable driving in mud and slick rock combined in mountainous terrain. I have never, seen any lights flashing, heard any wheel chattering, nor ever experienced reduction in power when powering through a slick environment. Regarding your opinion that I-4WD has accelerated brake wear by design I find is unfounded, my P1K5D brakes were completely wore out at 1800 miles, my LE is still going strong with about half the brake pad material remaining after 2K miles. Both machines have ran in identical conditions in the same location for an apple to apple comparison.

What you described in your post is the exact characteristics of an automotive traction control feature. (Cutting power, lights flashing) Hondas ECM in no way ever cuts power unless you have the seatbelt unbuckled or tip the machine over both are safety features. Full power is being applied in the LE irrespective of available traction.

You can dislike or distrust a technology you don't understand, but it is disingenuous to misrepresent how I-4WD works, and performs under power in slick conditions. Just say you don't trust it etc. if that's how you feel. I'm not sure being a marine based shop supervisor makes anyone an I-4WD expert.

@Tramguage1 what say you about the LE?

I think Joe Pesci said it best.....

 

JTW

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I will have to disagree, strongly in fact, about your description of the characteristics of I-4WD performance in how it acts in low traction situations on one side vs. the other. I have 2600+ miles on a 2016 P1K5D and over 2000 miles on a 2018 P1K LE to gauge experience from. That being said I have ridden in snow and ice a decent amount and considerable driving in mud and slick rock combined in mountainous terrain. I have never, seen any lights flashing, heard any wheel chattering, nor ever experienced reduction in power when powering through a slick environment. Regarding your opinion that I-4WD has accelerated brake wear by design I find is unfounded, my P1K5D brakes were completely worre out at 1800 miles, my LE is still going strong with about half the brake pad material remaining after 2K miles. Both machines have ran in identical conditions in the same location for an apple to apple comparison.

What you described in your post is the exact characteristics of an automotive traction control feature. (Cutting power, lights flashing) Hondas ECM in no way ever cuts power unless you have the seatbelt unbuckled or tip the machine over both are safety features. Full power is being applied in the LE irrespective of available traction.

You can dislike or distrust a technology you don't understand, but it is disingenuous the misrepresent how I-4WD works, and performs under power in slick conditions. Just say you don't trust it etc. if that's how you feel. I'm not sure being a marine based shop supervisor makes anyone an I-4WD expert.

@Tramguage1 what say you about the LE?

I think Joe Pesci said it best.....

Lesser Excursions! :rolleyes:
 
box4

Cuoutdoors

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I will have to disagree, strongly in fact, about your description of the characteristics of I-4WD performance in how it acts in low traction situations on one side vs. the other. I have 2600+ miles on a 2016 P1K5D and over 2000 miles on a 2018 P1K LE to gauge experience from. That being said I have ridden in snow and ice a decent amount and considerable driving in mud and slick rock combined in mountainous terrain. I have never, seen any lights flashing, heard any wheel chattering, nor ever experienced reduction in power when powering through a slick environment. Regarding your opinion that I-4WD has accelerated brake wear by design I find is unfounded, my P1K5D brakes were completely wore out at 1800 miles, my LE is still going strong with about half the brake pad material remaining after 2K miles. Both machines have ran in identical conditions in the same location for an apple to apple comparison.

What you described in your post is the exact characteristics of an automotive traction control feature. (Cutting power, lights flashing) Hondas ECM in no way ever cuts power unless you have the seatbelt unbuckled or tip the machine over both are safety features. Full power is being applied in the LE irrespective of available traction.

You can dislike or distrust a technology you don't understand, but it is disingenuous to misrepresent how I-4WD works, and performs under power in slick conditions. Just say you don't trust it etc. if that's how you feel. I'm not sure being a marine based shop supervisor makes anyone an I-4WD expert.

@Tramguage1 what say you about the LE?

I think Joe Pesci said it best.....

"yamaha fanboy psychosis" Wow, you clearly haven't been on the forum very long. Welcome from Maryland! I have a P500. Bulletproof, and somewhat modified...;) My beef is with the company in general for many reasons which I won't go into (yet again) here. I am presently the shop supervisor at a Honda marine shop. I have been working on, and with Honda outboards for the last 10 years of my 38 year long career in the design, repair and modification of cars, trucks, heavy equipment, agricultural equipment, motorcycles, boats, etc.. And most recently, I wrote and illustrated the install manual for Torq-Masters 'Torq-Locker' automatic locking differential for the P-500. As far as being "aware that the I-4wd system is an upgrade".... I am quite aware that you believe it is. In my expert opinion, it is a very poor choice for a machine that is clearly intended to be run hard. There are very limited situations where a brake grabbing a low traction wheel will ever work as well as a locked differential. If you get into mud a lot, you already know how quickly brake pads disappear. No pads, no more traction control. Now add the additional wear of the computer applying the brakes continuously every time a wheel starts to spin....
If you have a vehicle with this system (I do) you can do a simple test. Put one of the driving wheels on a slippery surface, and one on good traction- say one wheel on grass and one on pavement. Floor it. See if vehicle accelerates hard- it won't, brakes chattering, lights flashing, computer cuts engine power to nothing. Now do it ten times- rotor on the low traction side smoking, and system shuts down. In a muddy situation, or on snow, that's what the brake system will be subjected to hundreds of times. It's extremely disappointing to me that, yet again, Honda does not give it's customers choices- options. As far as the cost of true locker vs brake grabber, I'm pretty confident that a hydraulic pump, two,or four speed sensors, and programming to the existing computer, is far less expensive in the long run than the materials, complicated machining, and associated components to build, install, and actuate a true locking differential. Try not to get caught up in advertising hype. They have to sell it to you in a way that makes it sound like it's the best thing ever. It's usually just best for the company. And lastly- I do NOT want a Wolverine. I feel that Honda has completely ignored it's customers on so many fronts, that I feel right now that the only machine that will give me everything I want- short of the geared trans- is the Yamaha. It SUCKS, but presently, that's the only choice i.m.o.
Cheers!
Ill second what jakal said. Further the arguement that i4wd is cheaper is also unrealistic. They've been making manual lockers forever. It's a cable and a couple parts In the differential. The i4wd will put full power to all 4 wheels. I've done it over and over. Just 2 days ago plowing heavy wet snow going uphill, all 4 wheels spinning and snow flying. No lights flashing or decreased power. That sir is what your city slicker SUV would do.

Static friction is better traction than kinetic friction. The i4wd provides a focus on static friction when and where available.

Tell me how much time you've spent real world testing this i4wd that you like to bash so hard.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

JTW

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Ill second what jakal said. Further the arguement that i4wd is cheaper is also unrealistic. They've been making manual lockers forever. It's a cable and a couple parts In the differential. The i4wd will put full power to all 4 wheels. I've done it over and over. Just 2 days ago plowing heavy wet snow going uphill, all 4 wheels spinning and snow flying. No lights flashing or decreased power. That sir is what your city slicker SUV would do.

Static friction is better traction than kinetic friction. The i4wd provides a focus on static friction when and where available.

Tell me how much time you've spent real world testing this i4wd that you like to bash so hard.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Lol.. you have a point on that last part. But what difference does it make if y’all never ride with us anymore?
 

JACKAL

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Lol.. you have a point on that last part. But what difference does it make if y’all never ride with us anymore?
You sound like a 13 year old girl on Farcebook whoring for likes. The world of riding (or breaking chit) doesn't revolve around you. We ride plenty and break chit with other people too :p
 
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joeymt33

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I will have to disagree, strongly in fact, about your description of the characteristics of I-4WD performance in how it acts in low traction situations on one side vs. the other. I have 2600+ miles on a 2016 P1K5D and over 2000 miles on a 2018 P1K LE to gauge experience from. That being said I have ridden in snow and ice a decent amount and considerable driving in mud and slick rock combined in mountainous terrain. I have never, seen any lights flashing, heard any wheel chattering, nor ever experienced reduction in power when powering through a slick environment. Regarding your opinion that I-4WD has accelerated brake wear by design I find is unfounded, my P1K5D brakes were completely wore out at 1800 miles, my LE is still going strong with about half the brake pad material remaining after 2K miles. Both machines have ran in identical conditions in the same location for an apple to apple comparison.
Not totally Apple to apple.....

Don’t leave out that your 2016 rig was more accessorized which means it was heavier and it was running bigger heavier tires. That probably plays a big role.
 

JACKAL

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Not totally Apple to apple.....

Don’t leave out that your 2016 rig was more accessorized which means it was heavier and it was running bigger heavier tires. That probably plays a big role.
What I was comparing in that reference was primarily performance of 4WD/4WD Lock to I-4WD.

Now the heavier tires likely played a role in brake pad life, no getting around stopping additional inertia.
 

joeymt33

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What I was comparing in that reference was primarily performance of 4WD/4WD Lock to I-4WD.

Now the heavier tires likely played a role in brake pad life, no getting around stopping additional inertia.
That’s one of the problems for me to test drive an LE. I’m used to 32” tires and IGR. A trail that tests the limits of a stock LE won’t be a big deal for my set up. So I need to drive a stock deluxe and LE back to back.

@sharp told me to come test drive and I will soon but it won’t be a comparison. It will just be a single vehicle drive. At least I’ll get a decent idea of how it performs.
 
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